Networking! This is the episode where we take a deep dive into networking. What does it mean, really? How do you do it? What's the point, anyway? This industry is based on relationships, and we want you to have all the tools you need to make meaningful relationships that will help you in your career. Because here's the thing, the people starting out now will be the same people running the joint in 15 to 20 years, so you need to know them - be one of them. We're going to help you do just that.

THE PANEL

Stephanie Hall Marin

Shirley Davis

Alison Haskovec

Jeanette Volturno

Rachel Walens

THE PODCAST

TRANSCRIPT

Catch A Break — EP 4

Networking

Stephanie Hall Marin: And actually, it's funny because the number one thing I see from people just starting out is this fear of the word networking that it means these big scary noisy parties that are crowded and to be slick and cool and schmooze and you can go to those but networking is so much more than that. – SPEAKER: Shirley Davis The word networking has a connotation that makes it sound like it's very transactional. It's not about networking. It's about building your community. 00:00:46.647] - SPEAKER: Julie Harris Walker This is Catch A Break. The Insider's Guide to breaking into and navigating Hollywood. Conceived by CatchLight Films. Whether you are looking to work in film or television or new media it's all production and it's all entertainment. Maybe you are already in the business but looking to make a change, shift your focus, explore a new area. This is for you too. In each episode Catch A Break brings you a panel of top experts currently working in the business for conversations you won't hear anywhere else. And we'll provide you with bonus materials you can get your hands on and sink your teeth into. We'll give you samples of paperwork and forms you need to be familiar with. Video tutorials, exclusive resources that will all help with your success. The presenting sponsor of this episode is the entertainment payroll company Extreme Reach. They have the most comprehensive suite of tools and services to support all areas of media and content creation, from tax incentive support to accounting software and payroll services. If you are producing content call Extreme Reach. This episode has also sponsored by vetyourcrew.com. A global database of entertainment professionals geared toward collaboration and inclusion. Think of it as a global address book for crew which also has an interactive calendar to show when you're available and a robust search engine to help you find and hire exactly who you're looking for. Go to vetyourcrew.com to sign up. You can find us at catchabreakpodcast.com and all the podcast providers. I am your host Julie Harris Walker. You may know me from the podcast The Other 50 Percent: a Herstory of Hollywood or even the Kiss My Age Show. But today the focus is on you and how we can help you to Catch A Break.

Julie Harris Walker: Welcome to Catch a Break. Networking! What does that even mean really? How do you do it? What's the point? I mean sometimes it sounds kind of icky. So, we want to dispel all those rumors and really talk about what networking is, why you need to do it. What are the benefits? What is it all about? Because here's a thing. The people that you know today are going to be the same people running Hollywood in the next 15 to 20 years. So, you want to know them. You want to be them. You want them to be your friends. We're gonna help you do just that.

Julie Harris Walker: We have a great panel of executives today who have a lot of knowledge and experience with networking so we are really excited to hear what they have to say. Stephanie Hall Marin. I'm going to ask you what is your current job, what was your very first job, and then if in a minute you can tell us your path from A to B.

Stephanie Hall Marin: My name’s Stephanie. I'm an independent producer. My first job as a page at Paramount where I gave tours of the studio and my path from A to B was a weird one. So, I was a page at Paramount. I worked at a small below the line talent agency for a while. I've moved to Peru with the love of my life and worked for the United Nations so it took a sidestep, came back right after the crash in 2008. I got a job as an assistant and from there was promoted to a CE so I jumped around as a creative executive from a couple companies where I went out and branched out on my own and I've produced four features and two digital products

Julie Harris Walker: At some other time, I want to do a deep dive into that trip to Peru. We also have Rachel Walens.

Rachel Walens: My name's Rachel. I'm currently the vice president of development at Radiant Productions which is director Wolfgang Peterson's company. My first job in Hollywood was as an intern at Fox Searchlight. I knew absolutely nobody in the business and I got a copy of the Hollywood creative directory. I made a bunch of calls to companies that made movies I loved. I got a callback, got the internship, worked my ass off, stayed in touch and it just so happened that an executive there remembered me from when I interned and needed an assistant when I was graduating from college and hired me right out of school to work for him which was a super steep learning curve but I stuck it out. He took me with him to Focus Features so I was the West Coast story editor at Focus Features and his assistant for another three years and then I ended up going over to Radiant Productions where I am now. Funny story, I actually heard about the job from an intern of mine who was friends with the executive who was getting promoted to run his company who I had also known socially but had kind of lost touch with and she asked me if I could refer anyone to the job. And I referred myself

Julie Harris Walker: Well done!

Rachel Walens: Now of course I still had to do the two and a half months of multiple interviews and notes and lists and reference calls but that relationship is at least what got me in the door for that first interview.

Julie Harris Walker: And that is how it works. And the first important part of that was putting yourself forward and being brave enough to say me. Absolutely great.

Allison Haskovec: I'm Allison Haskovec and I'm a development executive at Silvertongue Films which is a live action family film company and I started out also as an intern. I'm from Boston Mass not from Los Angeles so I didn't know that you can get paid to work in the movies. I didn't know anything about it so I figured you know during college I'd just take an internship out here and I realized, yes you can get paid, you can get paid to read scripts, you can get paid to work with writers, and to oversee production and it was a whole new world had opened up to me. And similarly, to Rachel once I graduated the company actually had gone away that I'd work for which is also quite common in Hollywood. But my supervisor at the company remembered me and that's how I got my first job and it was a similar story of, you know, a steep learning curve as an assistant, working your way up, finding a mentor that was really important to me at Radar Pictures I found a mentor in Scott Kroopf who is a longtime creative producer and is very nuts to bolts going from story all the way through the end of a production and he really guided me and I actually ended up following him to three different companies and working my way up with him working on productions, working in development, and then actually the way that I got this most recent job was through a networking group that Rachel and I started together so we can talk about that more…

Julie Harris Walker: Yes, we're definitely going to talk about that more! And a quick editorial note since, we did this initial recording Allison has started working at Netflix. And we have Shirley Davis with us today.

Shirley Davis: Hi I'm Shirley Davis and my first job was for the Hearst Corporation at Hearst Entertainment making women in peril movies of the week. I was on the international sales side and realized that was not as interesting to me as production. I moved to Orion Pictures and then from there I became freelance and worked my way up to line producing and production managing after starting as an intern. And then decided to move to Los Angeles and my most recent job was Head of Production at Alcon Entertainment. And I am currently a consulting production executive now.

Julie Harris Walker: Jeanette Volturno.

Jeanette Volturno: I went to Culver City High School and I was a host on a show called How Hollywood Works for KBEV. It was my sixth period elective and I drove over to Beverly Hills High School and quickly learned that I didn't want to be in front of the camera. I wanted to be behind the camera so I started networking with my friends and PAing on music videos and that's when I started in the industry when I was 18 and, and worked on and off on those jobs while I was putting myself through college and then got into the visual effects field and then from visual effects went over to London and worked internationally and then came back and started my own company, worked in the independent side for ten years, connected with Jason, grew Blumhouse and have been with Jason for going on eleven years now and I'm currently the head of production over at Blumhouse.

Julie Harris Walker: And by Jason, you mean Jason Blum

Jeanette Volturno: Jason Blum, yes

Julie Harris Walker: So, as you can tell everyone has the exact same linear path, that you can go down a checklist for your career in Hollywood. All right let's talk about what does the word networking even mean.

Rachel Walens: Well I think it means two things.

Julie Harris Walker: And this is Rachel.

Rachel Walens: I think it means obviously meeting new people but I also think that it means nurturing the relationships that you have. Because this is a business everyone knows is built on relationships but it's not just the quantity of relationships are who you know it's how well you know them. Have you built trust? Is it somebody that is going to want to stick their neck out for you by recommending you for a job or slipping you a script or whatever the case may be. So, I think a lot of times people expect networking to mean immediate results when in fact it might, and that's great, but I think most networking is really a long game.

Stephanie Hall Marin: And to add to that I would say

Julie Harris Walker: And this is Stephanie

Stephanie Hall Marin: A lot of times people assume it's “oh we're just gonna have coffee” and that's it. But you have to help each other out like you can get scripts from people, but you also have to give them scripts. You have to like, help them out as, as much as you want help from them. So, it's really a reciprocal relationship. Keeping that up is really important.

Allison Haskovec: I would also say there's a lot of overlap between social and professional.

Julie Harris Walker: This is Allison

Allison Haskovec: In Hollywood and that can sometimes blur the lines a little but that's another way just to build on what Rachel said is to build trust. So, you know you're going to some party and you think oh this is just with some friends but that can turn into jobs in this industry because it is so small and in the same way you know people get reputations really quickly, in either direction. So, you know you sort of have to be on your best behavior.

Julie Harris Walker: So, if you have this vision of networking that you're going to go to some party, collect a bunch of business cards, and then get a bunch of things from those people. That is not at all what's going to happen.

Stephanie Hall Marin: No, no. And actually, it's funny because the number one thing I see from people just starting out is this fear of the word networking, that it means these big scary noisy parties that are crowded and I have to be slick and cool and schmooze and you can go to those but networking is so much more than that right? It's like if you're an intern and you have lunch with another intern, you're networking because that intern might run a studio someday. If you're in film school and you're hanging out with a friend and they're a really talented writer well you might make a movie with that person someday. You know all of us didn't meet, well some of us knew each other, but some of us met this morning so in a way we're all networking right now which is super meta but true. But I think that's really the important takeaway for it because I know there's a lot of people especially the creative community that come in with social anxiety about networking. And I always like to see it as if this sounds cheesy but it's true. You're making friends with somebody you already have something in common with that you might end up doing business with

Jeanette Volturno: It’s the social web, right? So, you're connecting the points on the web.

Julie Harris Walker: This is Jeanette.

Jeanette Volturno: And being able to traverse to other places through other people. And sometimes it's through digital means but many times it's through communication with people and talking to them. If you let someone know this is what I'm interested in they go “Oh my God. I have another person who's interested in that as well or is like minded with you or has shared some same common goal” and they're apt to jump in and connect you with that person if they feel that you have the same vibe and vision as that person. So that's really important. And when I was younger I think the one thing that I would take when I would go to those big networking parties and they were terrifying because everybody felt it felt like everybody had somebody to talk to and you were sort of standing there alone and didn't have someone to talk to. If I walked out of there having met one person and just taking one name and one number and I followed up with that person, that to me meant the world because I could real, I really connected with that person I could really follow up with that one person whereas I would have other friends that would walk away with 30 cards or 30 numbers or things and they would never connect and stay in touch with those people…

Julie Harris Walker: Because who can remember who those faces are that go with those cards?

Jeanette Volturno: So, like you know don't feel like you have to go to one of those things and come away with a whole bunch of contacts. If you get one great connection you're successful.

Rachel Walens: I also think on that note something happened to a lot of my friends and myself to when I was young I thought that I had to go to those things and meet something fancier than I was. So I had to kind of level up with my networking and if I was an assistant or a CE like you know another CE or DOD or a V.P. That they were going to help me when in reality I really needed to solidify the relationships at my level because we would all move up together and help each other out because people that are above you, like, they have their own network of people they don't necessarily need to help everyone out underneath them. So, I think really solidifying connections at your level is really important.

Julie Harris Walker: And now Shirley.

Shirley Davis: I think that the word networking has a connotation that makes it sound like it's very transactional. So, what I tell people oftentimes is it's not about networking. It's about building your community. And when you look at it that way it feels like you're, there's a reason why your bonding with these people to everybody's point. There are similarities in what you're either doing perhaps your approach. There may be other things that person has interests in that coincide with yours. So, it's to your point it's about the long game and that's the best way to play the long game. I mean if you meet someone and start a relationship with them in your personal life you're not going to look at it for like the next three to five years you're going to look at it for the rest of your life. And if these are good people that you're meeting they too will be in your life for the long haul and it won't be exclusively about the latest deals or latest scripts there has to be something else that's substantive that will keep you in touch with that person.

Julie Harris Walker: And one of the key things I heard you guys say was about building trust because people do ask people to stick their neck out for each other but it feels like such a high-risk business people are very loath to do that unless they know you are going to deliver what you say you're going to deliver because it's their reputation on the line. So, the building trust piece is huge.

Stephanie Hall Marin: I got for my mentor a woman I worked for and I feel very lucky to have had that experience and she gave me a piece of advice I’ve taken with me all of my life which is in this industry, people jump from business to business from company to company and are rarely at one place for a long time. So inevitably this business is the business. So, it doesn't matter what company you're at. If you don't call somebody back, you don't email someone back, they're not going to call you. So, you can network all day but if you don't actually keep up and trust those relationships and follow through with what you say you're going to do, it doesn't matter. To be in the business of you is a mentality that I think especially when thinking of networking is really important because you can meet people but you need to actually hold up your end of the bargain always which is a great way to look at it.

Julie Harris Walker: And it's funny because L.A. Has the reputation of people being kind of flakey in their personal relationships like in New York. If you make a date next Tuesday at two o'clock you don't even have to confirm, everyone is showing up. In L.A. Unless you confirm at 145, that meeting may or may not happen and no big deal and you don't talk about it ever again. Except in the business, it is so hyper accountable that if you are not one hundred and twenty five percent accountable and dependable and will show up, you’re done.

Jeanette Volturno: I will actually go above and beyond in my relationships. So. So like a lot of the line producers that I work with because I oversee them I work with them and they're all really dear friends if they're on another show that is not something that I'm working on I make myself available to them to be their phone call as a bounce board when something happens on their show and they've built such a high trust with me that they'll call me at all hours and say I'm so sorry but I know you're the one person that's going to give me this piece of information or help me with this or point me in the right direction. And so, when I turn around and I ask them a favor further down the line I get tenfold back out of that because I've made myself available to help them. Even though it's not something that's a project that I'm working on.

Julie Harris Walker: You've already made deposits in that bank.

Jeanette Volturno: Yes.

Shirley Davis: And that's a great point because you don't give to get. You give to give and then people want to do that in return. So, altruism works.

Jeanette Volturno: Yes, it does.

Stephanie Hall Marin: The other thing I say just to build on the idea that being terrifying like you don't have to necessarily go to all those parties. You can do lunches, you can do more business-oriented things but definitely especially when you're young, do them. Like I was pretty shy coming out here and what I loved about this business is that it forced me to be social because it was like you have to do this. As an assistant, you have to go out and meet other assistants for lunch or for drinks or you know, whatever you feel is appropriate. And it's all about exchanging information at that level. And what's the next hottest script, do you have it. You know, finding things for your boss and working with other assistants to find them. And so, there's actually something kind of fun and wonderful about being forced to be social and meeting people and then starting, that is sort of your build, building block of your network.

Allison Haskovec: So, when you're at an event you have to remember that other people feel the same way that you do. They have the same, “Oh my god is someone gonna talk to me? Am I going to be interesting? Can I break into this conversation?” And when you realize that, it makes it a little easier to relax. So, what I tend to do is rather than aimlessly wandering around with a drink in my hand and a little plate of food, I find a little table that I can perch at and I leave myself open to the crowd and I invite whoever is going to come into that table and to those conversations. And I think my biggest rule of thumb for that is do not look at your phone. You are there for a specific reason. So be open, make eye contact, and be available to the people that are wandering around to have those conversations and just enjoy the ambience and don't have that nervous like” Oh my God I'm not talking to anybody and everybody else is talking” kind of feeling.

Rachel Walens: And on the note of networking make sure to not just stick with the people that you know actually proactively go meet new people and don't just stick with your group.

Julie Harris Walker: Don't go to the group of friends and then talk to nobody. Alison, since you brought up assistants, let's dig into that a little bit. Sometimes there I think when you're first starting out there may be an attitude of like, of the assistants don't matter, let me just get past them or treat them poorly to get to the person I want to talk to. Tell us why that is such a horrendous mistake.

Allison Haskovec: The assistants are the real gatekeepers. They are the keepers of the schedules. They are the keepers of their bosses phone logs. They are basically if you're, if you're going to talk down to an assistant and piss them off they could easily leave you off of the phone sheet. They could easily reschedule that lunch or not schedule it that you're dying to have with their boss and they are also on their bosses phone calls. So, they really have access to the most information of anybody. So, if you're smart you'll be nice to the assistants. They're also not always treated the best by their own bosses. So even extra reason to be nice to them because then they might remember you.

Julie Harris Walker: And don’t they all know each other?

Allison Haskovec: And they all know each other. Yeah.

Stephanie Hall Marin: I mean to add on to that, A: Just be nice to people always. (Sounds of group agreement) But B: depending on where you are in your own journey, like if you're calling an assistant to get information you're probably on their level and you should be friends with them because you'll move up together and it's when that assistant gets a promotion, like, they might hear of a job that they'll put you up for and you'll all kind of like, help each other grow versus trying to, you know, jump above the people in your own peer class. Then you don't really have that support group that you need to kind of move forward. So, assistants. Yes, they have all of the information and they're incredibly valuable, you should always be nice to them because they're paid poorly. But…

Julie Harris Walker: Working hard!

Stephanie Hall Marin: They're also the people I think that will be the most supportive in helping your career actually move forward.

Rachel Walens: I agree with everything that's been said. I also will say the quickest way to seem like you are not legitimate is to be rude to an assistant. That is a red flag.

Stephanie Hall Marin: Just to kind of, jumping back to what we were talking about networking though. If you are an assistant, some people that might be afraid of going to the big parties, you can always just email the assistants. Like say your scheduling with your bosses and you're like “hey okay. We set that meeting. Would you like to get a drink?” So, those one on one assistant meetings are so important, they're so valuable and they're actually really easy to do and because it's a one on one coffee or drink or lunch, well, rarely lunch if you’re an assistant… (laughter) Coffee and let's get us a drink. Those are like, the least amount of stress I think because it gives you time to have a one on one meeting with somebody and really get to know them and then you can say “hey, do you know anybody else I should know?” And that can jumpstart a network for you in a really, if you're shy, a really easy way.

Julie Harris Walker: OK let's talk about the dos. What are the good ways, the most effective ways, the things you should do when you're networking.

Rachel Walens: Well, I’ll say one thing which is informationals I find super helpful. The first piece of advice I ever got in this business was people love to give advice and so looking for somebody that either you have a personal connection with like a friend can introduce you, maybe they went to your alma mater, you can reach out to them. You could try a cold call or email, you know, maybe you'll have luck, maybe you won't. Doesn't matter. But ultimately what you're doing is you're saying to them I need your advice, right? The subtext of informationals is “I need a job.” That's never the text, right? So, you will probably send your resume ahead of time so that they can get a sense of what your background is. You research them in their company. You think carefully about the questions that you want to ask and you go in and you say, “This is where I am. This is where I want to be. What advice would you have for somebody in my position?” Because it's really important to not put people on the spot. So again, asking for advice and not a favor. And then of course, you know, 10 minutes. “Can I have ten minutes to pick your brain?” Make it as easy on them as possible. Bring them coffee, go to their office, whatever and then always, always, always, send a thank you note after. An email is fine but some kind of thank you. Doesn't have to be super involved. “Thanks for your time, I know you're busy. I really appreciate your advice. It was really helpful.”

Jeanette Volturno: You’ll be amazed at how many people do not do their research before they come in. Like that is a big one. I am astounded when people get a tip, they get, or an inclination to reach out to somebody just because they had heard of them or something and but they don't really know what they're, what they like, what they work on, where they're going, like that sort of thing and they don't come off great in the meeting and then they're very memorable. You can have a negative networking experience that way. That they will remember you, that you were the person who didn't have your shit together when you met. You know so…

Julie Harris Walker: So, don’t waste your ten minutes saying “so what do you do?” (laughter)

Rachel Walens: And by the way, that 10 minutes can turn into an hour if they like you and if they like you, they're going to remember you and they're going to keep their eyes out for jobs for you without you even having to ask. And maybe they'll connect you to other people and so you know the very least that you'll get out of it is some good advice

Shirley Davis: And check the trades that morning because they may have just signed the biggest deal of their lives, and you walk in and you, you don't say anything about it. So just be current up into the minute you walk into the room and overprepare because it's a good indication of how you're going to work anyway.

Jeanette Volturno: Yeah. Just like how you should create whatever database that works for you in terms of tracking people and your conversations and their likes and their kids and all of the stuff that you want to keep as relevant information for people, remember that the people that you're meeting are keeping the exact same database on you. So, give them nuggets of things that you want them to remember and to bring forth when they're pitching you to someone else or introducing you to someone else and not the negative things.

Stephanie Hall Marin: On the note of databases of people, just because I don't know like who's listening to this, I think that it's a very real thing that people out here do which I don't think a lot of other industries do. And the first time I, somebody was like, “oh you well you're…” like, I looked at their phone and had all these notes about a person and my eyes just went big. I was like, “whoa you do that?” And from that moment I was like, “OK. I have to do that on everyone” and I still try to. But it's so important because you might not see, you might be in production for a year, you might not see them for a year and a half. And if you go and you're like, “oooh, they have a kid. What's their name?” You don't remember. You lose that genuine connection a little bit. So, it is so important what she was saying, like databases and really finding your own way to track the connections that you've had. Because I think the most important thing in this industry is a genuine connection and being human about it and not being robotic about “What projects are you working on, what projects can I work on?” Because we can do that on the phone. And if you have a genuine connection with somebody they’re gonna be so much more able and willing to help you out and to really want, like, the best for you.

Jeanette Volturno: Oh my God. When I lived in England, they hated when Americans would ask like, “So what are you working on?” That was like the biggest turnoff to a Brit that I was working with. They would rather have you lead with a question that was like, “What are you reading these days? What are you interested in? What movie have you seen?” They would, they want to hear more of your personal life, living stuff then actually going. Diving into work. And the same relates over here when you get to know somebody and you remember those details. So that's a big deal. And I would also have to say that this new generation that's coming up has so many more tools at their fingertips for tracking and remembering and networking that you know, I’m gonna sound really old. “Back in the day!” Like, we didn't even have any of this stuff like, you know, to track or write down all of the stuff. You were writing it on the back of business cards and carrying around stacks of business cards and hoping that you could pull it up fast enough like that's how it was back then but now it's so easy. It really just is the muscle of learning to write it down and go back and refer to it. And some people actually put them on reminders to call somebody every two months or every six months or something like that so that they stay within that relevant space of someone's peripheral.

Stephanie Hall Marin: Those people are super heroes.

Julie Harris Walker: That is impressive. What about social media? What are the parameters around that? Facebook, LinkedIn, and stuff. Snapchat!

Allison Haskovic: Well if I have a good meeting with somebody and we connect on a business level I'll usually friend them on LinkedIn. If we connect on a personal level as well as a business level, I might go on Facebook because I really want to, in some way, follow up a positive meeting with some kind of connection. So, whether it's an email saying “it was great meeting you, I'd love to stay in touch” or LinkedIn or Facebook. You just kind of feel, feel it out per instance. But I think it’s always good to have some kind of follow up.

Shirley Davis: As you said, you know, the tools are there. I oftentimes will check LinkedIn and Facebook just to see if there's any people in common. I would never stalk them on Facebook but just so I have a sense of who I'm dealing with and know as much information going in and always make sure to ask about their daughter and make sure they don't have a son.

Jeanette Volturno: So, like, you're a dog lover, so I'd be like, “hey, like, how's your dog?” like, you know…

Shirley Davis: You don't have to wait, I'll just tell you. (laughter)

Julie Harris Walker: Let me see the latest photo! (laughter)

Stephanie Hall Marin: I would say, I actually just took a LinkedIn workshop, funny enough. I think in the past, the social media, the networking, particularly the more job-related stuff has not been that helpful in our industry because really it is all mostly built on personal relationships. I just actually was at a networking event and was speaking to someone who had gotten a job off of LinkedIn which really shocked me. But apparently that's happening more and more so, you know, it's like anything else it's, make sure that you're presenting yourself the way that you should. You should care about the picture that's there in the photo because it really tells the world who you are. You should present yourself in a certain way that you want to be presented. So, LinkedIn obviously is a much more work-related site so you should have your skill sets there. Make sure people have verified your skill sets. Put out there what you want to be doing in addition to what you are doing and doing it in a very short and concise and articulate way. And then what's, what is great, and this goes back to that web, is that on LinkedIn you can see oh, I'm like a second-generation connection to this person. Our, the person was so enthusiastic about LinkedIn who was leading our workshop and she's like, “I'm third generation to Oprah!” (laughter) Which is like, “That's awesome for you, I'm sure you could call Oprah.” But it is helpful to know, oh, you know, there's a second generation to this person and my friend knows that person and that's a good way rather than making a cold call somewhere. To be able to actually connect with someone that you might want to at a different company, so it's just another tool to have.

Allison Haskovic: On the note of presenting yourself. Everybody will look at your imdb, they'll look at your LinkedIn but they will most definitely also look at your Facebook. So maybe your profile picture shouldn't be doing like, a keg stand, you know? (laughter) People are going to look at it. So, make sure it also is…It could be fun, but…

Julie Harris Walker: So, the same advice we have for high school seniors applying to college is the same advice you have for professionals.

Allison Haskovic: Yep.

Shirley Davis: I do have a note about cold calls vs. Warm calls which is if you've met someone in a meeting you should always ask them if they have anybody else that you could speak with. Usually one to three people. And if you then use that introduction, that to me is a warm cold or, or a warm email where they know that you know this person. So, in the subject line of your email you would say so-and-so suggested I contact you. And that's been a very good way to get to meet people because they're more susceptible to take your call, your email, if they see that there's a name that they know.

Stephanie Hall Marin: And also, on that note something that I've done often in my life and I've had like, done to me too, is I'll get an email or a call from a friend saying “hey, you know Joe Smith. I really want to know Joe Smith. Can you email introduce us?” So, then a common friend will do an email intro and then from there we move them to BCC who is at our meeting we like move forward with our relationship. It's so easy. You're verified you're not a crazy person and it's a warm, exactly. It’s a warm meeting.

Shirley Davis: And that's a really low impact way to gain favor. Someone gave me great advice once they said, “every interaction you have with someone is a positive or negative, it's a deposit or withdrawal.” And the whole point is to ensure that you're always depositing in the relationship bank and not withdrawing. So, being late at a meeting is a withdrawal. Canceling last minute is a terrible withdrawal. Coming early, on time, prepared? You've just put in a hundred bucks in the bank.

Julie Harris Walker: All right what else for the do’s? Is that it? Someone mentioned set up Google alerts. Not just look at the trades, but set up a Google alert for someone you're going to meet so that anytime something happens for them in the press you can see it.

Allison Haskovic: I’ve just been going because I know we've talked about informationals and like, meetings and stuff. But if you're an assistant, I do think being on a Google tracking group is probably the best thing you can ever do because it's all about sharing information with people and Google Groups are a tool that are incredible, amazing, and really allows you to share information and meet new people on your phone.

Julie Harris Walker: Talk a little bit more about that, what's a Google chat group.

Allison Haskovic: So, Google tracking group is a group, it's an email group. Maybe I should let Rachel… (laughter) It's a google group where a bunch of people in the same group. So, when you're an assistant you're on a Google tracking group with a bunch of other assistants. Now a lot of us at this table have kind of grown above that, more on the executive tracking groups. The goal is to be on an email exchange with a bunch of people that can help you out. So, if you're looking for a script you can email this group and say “hey, I need, you know, Podcast: The Script. Does anybody have it?” And if somebody has it, they can email it to you. If you're like, “hey does anybody know someone at this company, I'm looking for an in.” If somebody on the group knows maybe that company, they can introduce you. You can trust each other, you can work together, and it really helps both expand your network and give you information.

Rachel Walens: Probably wondering, sort of, how do you get into one of these? There's two things you can do. One is, you know somebody that's in one who can let you in. The other is something that I've kind of made my thing which is I just make one. So, Allison and I started a group for female executives

Rachel Walens: And that's Rachel.

Rachel Walens: But what I also do is I take interests that I have outside of the business, usually that people make fun of me for. For example, my taste in music. My interest in true crime. I'm an avid gamer. And so, what I'll do is, I'll find other people in the industry that love those things. And I'll start a group and then we'll talk on the group only about that subject but the subtext is always networking. So, you’ll go, “oh I really connect with this person as a person. Well let's go grab a drink and talk about maybe how we can do business.” Those groups have exploded. I mean there's 100 hundred people on one, almost hundred and seventy on another, et cetera. So, it's a really great way to bond with people and network professionally in the process. So, if you can't find a group, start one. Find your interest or find people that you know, again are in your peer group that want to start a group with you and then they bring their friends and their friends bring their friends and so, everyone is cool because everyone's been vetted and then they are absolutely sort of set it and forget it networking.

Stephanie Hall Marin: Yeah. When I was an assistant was, a straight up development group. So all we would do was once a week we would get meet together, sorry once a month, and we would just talk about the scripts that we've all read, we share scripts that we've read, we really talk about them and that helped keep us in the development, what's hot around town which is important if you're on the creative side, really knowing writers, really knowing scripts, but also in the same way that Rachel is mentioning it allowed us for really easy networking. So, both helped us really get to know these scripts and also network. There are hiking groups, there are so many, there's so many really great ones.

Allison Walens: Rachel, and this is Allison, Rachel and my group started just after an assistant brunch. I mean we just a bunch of really lovely ladies got together and then Rachel and I sort of looked at each other, someone else had actually organized it, our other friend, and we said we'd love to just keep in touch. That's, that was it. It was very simple. And this is now over a decade ago. And so there can also be great longevity to these groups. And we've sort of all grown up together. And so, there is that trust. It's a limited group as well. So, we try to kind of keep it to people that we really do know or that other people know. And then a lot of people leave the industry. And so, what we've done is we've created also an alum- alumni group to it. So, what was great about that is we could keep sort of the business questions so that one group and then any other question that you'd ever want to know about, you know, cleaners or the best restaurant or anything else. We still have access to that sort of information so it can sort of feed your life and all sorts of ways that aren't even industry related.

Stephanie Hall Marin: And another kind of just note on the do’s is kind of, like, what Rachel and Allison did, they started their own tracking board. It doesn't have to be a tracking board, it could be anything. Like, you can create anything. We live in a network or an initiative or supposed to have rules to follow but there are actually no rules. You could do whatever you want. I worked at a company as a CE, I’d just been promoted. I've never worked with CAA or WME. I was really frustrated that when I’d call for a director or a writer, they would not call me back. They’d call me back at, like, seven thirty when they feel like they left the office, which is infuriating. But part of it, part of the industry, part of the game, you have to know you to want to call you back. So, I basically went home one night and made a list of everybody that I wanted to know. So, all agents, junior agents not super fancy Brian Lords of the world. Same thing with managers and executives at other companies. Everybody that I wanted to know that I wanted to do business with. And I created a website and made the website feel as if this event had been going on for a long time. And I mailed out invitations to a party to the list of people that I made. I told no one it was me. It felt anonymous. I even sent an invite to my best friend and she sent me an email and said I just got invited to this party, can you come with me? (Laughter)

Julie Harris Walker: Like, I guess!

Stephanie Hall Marin: Yeah. And the first one, I invited one hundred and twenty people and 80 people came and from that it is growing to events twice a year both in New York and in L.A. And now we have over 300 people at each event. People when it started out were CEs and now they’re presidents of companies, it's grown to this incredibly curated event that people come to religiously because it's such a great group of people. And that's all because I wanted people to know who I was and we work in an industry with no rules. So, networking. It can mean all the things that we're talking about but you can also create anything that you want.

Julie Harris Walker: That is genius.

Shirley Davis: Does that mean we're all going to get an invite now? (laughter)

Stephanie Hall Marin: Never underestimate the power of a party. (laughter)

Julie Harris Walker: All right, let's talk about the don’ts. What are the things you should never do?

Stephanie Hall Marin: I think don't disrespect people. And I think that kind of carries a lot of things. Don't disrespect their time. Don't disrespect the relationship. I had a person that came to one of my events, cold emailed every single person at the event, was just like, “I want to meet you!” It's rude. Nobody likes it, doesn't work. It feels invasive. So just respect people. Respect their time, respect their relationships.

Rachel Walens: I would say, be nice to everybody. It's the sort of building on what you were saying because you never know who somebody is. You don't know, you know, who they know. You don't know who's listening. And so, if you're rude or you're talking badly about someone behind their back, that's probably going to get back to them. So just always conduct yourself with integrity. And this is, Hollywood is not just a small town. It is like a small-town high school locker room. Everybody knows everybody else’s business. So, if you behave badly, everybody is going to know.

Julie Harris Walker: Yes, it will follow you around.

Allison Haskovic: And I would also say like, you know, don't put people on the spot when you're networking. You know, you're having a lunch and immediately they're like, “who do you know and who do, you know, who do you hang out with?” and you're just like, “I don't even know you, why am I giving you this information?” Like what is this-

Julie Harris Walker: What can you do for me?

Allison Haskovic: -a frat house?

Stephanie Hall Marin: And also, don’t name drop. It’s so annoying when people name drop.

Allison Haskovic: Oh my God. Yeah. It just shows insecurity.

Stephanie Hall Marin: I would say don't misrepresent yourself because again it's really easy to find out, “oh, you don't actually really know that person” or “oh, you didn't actually really do those things.” And then nobody's going to trust you and going back again to building the trust and sort of everybody knowing everybody, it's really important that you always conduct yourself again with integrity.

Jeanette Volturno: That “fake it till you make it” kind of thing is, is more about confidence and less about saying something that you haven't done so the, so take that as like “I'm going to project that I'm feeling comfortable here, that I'm somebody to know, that I'm moving up in this world.” But do that with authenticity and, and not being vague about it

Julie Harris Walker: Because on the one hand, tell people what you are and they will believe you, and I definitely believe that for Hollywood. So, if you are an aspiring director, do you walk in a room and say “Hey, I’m a director.” Or do you walk in and say “I am an aspiring director” or “I've done my short and I aspire to do feature films but I'm a director.”

Jeanette Volturno: Yeah, but don't oversell yourself because then you, you, you, you've gone too far. You have to claim who you are and where you're going but not oversell it.

Allison Haskovic: So, you know I'm up for a film that's either me or Spielberg… (laughter)

Julie Harris Walker: OK. Don't do that.

Rachel Walens: Now, I think people are really on guard in this business. They're really used to being used, you know? And so that, when you are genuine, that, that really kind of opens up relationships for you because people really respond to somebody that doesn't have a secret agenda.

Julie Harris Walker: Well, it’s just a relief!

Rachel Walens: Read the room, basically. We used to laugh because when we had, we had a space, an office, down in Marina Del Rey for eight years and we'd have these kids come in who just graduated and they would come in and they would say, “So you know I'm interviewing with you because I just graduated from USC or wherever, AFI or whatever, and I'm a director” and I'm like, “That's great.” And we'd say, you know, “we've, we've got a project coming up, we need a production assistant,” and they'd be like, “No, no, you don't understand. I'm a director” and I'm like “No, that's great. Well, we have a job coming up as a production assistant” and they’re like, “But I'm a director” and I'm like, “You, you, you can't come straight out of school and that's a one in a billion thing to do that and maybe you come from money or maybe you have that one in a billion idea that will get funded and launch but until then, learn to come up the ladder and network with people.” Take that opportunity to learn from other people's mistakes and network in there. But you know a lot of them come out thinking that they don't need to be humble and start from the bottom and move up.

Allison Haskovec: Well on that note I think it's, I don't know if it's a film school thing, but there is a mentality of “this is the one thing I do, it's the only thing I can do” as opposed to, let's say you're a writer and you get an assistant job at WME and you crush your job and you're so good at what you do. You have one of the most powerful agencies that will back you if your writing is good. So, you put in a year or two, but if you do it right and you work hard then you have a team of people that will launch your career in ways that you would never have the opportunity to before. So, I think the idea that you could only do this one thing is short sighted.

Jeanette Volturno: Honest, it's like, it's you know, how many writers have you guys met that can't get an agent or manager? And that's because they never networked in those group of people, right? So, if you start off working in that industry and you're working for an agency, you have a better chance of knowing the people that you're going to click with, that are really going to get you there and help you in your career.

Stephanie Hall Marin: Absolutely. Also, knowing how that machine works is invaluable. Just in general, it’s a great job to have had.

Julie Harris Walker: And it's a long game. You don't have to be at the top of the heap at 25 and in fact, you’re probably not going to be.

Jeanette Volturno: And you should also be open to the universe too, because you could walk into a party, a networking event, and all of a sudden there's someone that was not on your list and you just have a genuine conversation with them and you just don't know where that leads to. Like everything doesn't have to be based on your research. Sometimes people just come out of nowhere and, you know, suggest something to you. So just be open to them as well. And if they say, “I think you should meet this person” and that person’s not on your radar, it's worth taking the meeting. It shouldn't have to just be, they have a title next to their name, because that, again, I feel like that's very transactional. You want to be able to just go with it sometimes.

Allison Haskovic: I see that happen all the time. Never underestimate the underdog because somebody that without a fancy title today might be best friends with somebody at a new financier and is running their company tomorrow. Everybody has value.

Rachel Walens: Well the other thing is, if you're an assistant, right? Let's say you’re an assistant at an agency, you're maybe looking to bring in material to sort of boost your profile there in places your boss isn't looking. So, if you're a writer and your friends with that assistant and they offer to look at your script, that's a huge deal. It's not like “Ugh, it’s an assistant.” It's like, “Wow, I actually have a gatekeeper who, if they like it, might pass it up the ladder

Allison Haskovic: Or that assistant might be like, next in line to become a junior agent. They might hip pocket you as a writer and like, launch your career

Allison Haskovic: And they'll actually read your script. (laughter)

Jeanette Volturno: So really this is just about the assistant. (laughter)

Rachel Walens: I will say one other don't. And this goes to the sort of transactional thing. If somebody is offering to help you with your career in the same breath as they're hitting on you, walk away. That is a red flag

Stephanie Hall Marin: And that's where lines can be blurred especially with the assistant drinks, like you, know when everyone's young and it's like you're going out with a male assistant and they sometimes, people do step over the line and that, especially as a woman, is really insulting because it's like, “no, this is a work thing. This is not gonna go there.” So, I mean, I got married pretty young so I would always wear my ring just to be like, this is about work. This is not about anything else. Even so, I mean, people can be inappropriate and so you should feel very comfortable to just sort of draw the line and you know, cut it short. You can easily just ask for the check and take off.

Julie Harris Walker: And we're getting, I think, more language around it now. You can say like this, “I'm not looking for a Me Too moment right now, I was just looking for hour to meet you.” OK, so let's talk about, let's just throw out some networking groups that people can join and we will create a list and put it in the supplemental materials. Like Women and Film is a great thing to join if you're a woman and even if you're a man.

Jeanette Volturno: Well, we first started when Rick and I were kind of coming up. We got really involved in the Producers Guild and we were doing a lot of the networking events with the Producers Guild back in the day. And that helped us kind of network around some of the people that we were working with

Julie Harris Walker: Do you have to be a producer first to get into the Producers Guild?

Jeanette Volturno: You can be a coordinator, so anybody who's on the production track that comes up a coordinator or a supervisor, line producer, producer level can get in. Even post supervisors in all, in media, television, features,

Shirley Davis: Do they have commercials too?

Jeanette Volturno: I’m not sure, they might. But like, the online media game, gaming area and stuff is big in the PGA now which was a whole new change for that union, for that guild.

Stephanie Hall Marin: I think in terms of networking groups to join, going off of what we've talked about before, really finding small, like, little groups and being a part of them. So, if you're a writer, yes, you might be able to join the WGA. But until you get there, find fellow writers and start an accountability group like once a week make sure you're writing. And through that you will meet other writers, you will meet the people that they know. If you're young assistants, network with other assistants. Start your own google group. I think a lot of it is there are bigger ones to join, like wimps is a great tracking board for women. But it's also very large. So, you're not going to have those one on one connections as easily as you are with, “Hey I met you, or we're scheduling drinks with the boss, let's get lunch and let's expand our network that way, we'll start our own Google Group, we'll start our own at our level networking groups and grow them together. I think that is the most important and the most valuable ultimately.

Allison Haskovic: I have to agree with that because I'm not part of any of these larger groups and it's worked out just fine so far. Because it is, it's building that level of trust between people. And the more long standing relationships? Those are the people that you go to, kind of, in times of need or if they need anything you’re there for them. So, you just don't get that from the bigger groups.

Rachel Walens: I'm a part of two different groups, I'm bicoastal so half my time is in New York, half my time is in L.A. And so, I'm in a group on each coast that's just female producers and we get together once a month and what we talk about is how we can help each other, how we can support each other, what projects other people need help with, what, you know, is somebody looking for a job, can we help them? It's solely just for support and that's just another example of, we were all sitting together one day and saying, “Hey let's like, help each other grow. How can we do that, let's create a group.” So really being proactive and saying this what I need, this is what I want, and making it happen for yourself.

Julie Harris Walker: There are also a million Facebook groups. You could put together any category of anything. And also, I wanted to mention Filmpowered which is another group for qualified women to network with each other and learn from each other and get jobs.

Shirley Davis: Also, there's, there are sports groups that people could join too. Any, you know, Golf for Women, tennis, you could hike with people. There are different ways to still be able to get to know people in a larger group.

Stephanie Hall Marin: My husband, we played kickball one year and my husband met his manager through kickball because he was just another guy on a kickball team, we had never met him, we became friends and now he helped launch his career.

Allison Haskovic: That was a big thing in our 20’s, there was a kickball league that we were all a part of.

Julie Harris Walker: And in L.A. No matter what you do, half the people there are going to work in the business right?

Jeanette Volturno: You're like one degree of separation from someone who works in the industry.

Julie Harris Walker: Or at school, once you have kids and you put them in school.

Stephanie Hall Marin: There's an industry bowling league! So, whatever you do, there's some version of it that is fun. So yeah, 2 days are great.

Rachel Walens: There's also like, various unions have various networking things too, like the Teamsters have car shows and the, like, if you like classic cars you can go and hang out at the classic car shows. They have sports days and, you know, you can go to a Dodger event together or you can go to, you know, those kind of things as well so they have their various, those type of networking things as well. Poker. There’s a lot of poker games. And some salons that let people throw…

Julie Harris Walker: Yes! I think that brings us to our Martini Shot round where everybody talks about their big takeaway or their last advice when it comes to networking. Shirley?

Shirley Davis: Really push yourself outside of your comfort zone when it comes to networking. Again, I like saying build a community because it's true. Treat everybody really well. If someone goes above and beyond for you, send flowers. You know, don't put yourself well out of pocket but really show people that you appreciate the effort that they made. And people remember it! They like, people like to feel appreciated and they are doing you a favor. So, I would say send the paper thank you note, send a flower, Make a phone call on their behalf. Do anything you can that you would do for a good friend or a family member.

Jeanette Volturno: I think the most, the most memorable ones for me are the really heartfelt cards that I get from people that put some thought into anything that they may have taken out of the meeting and the impact that it had and how they're using that for the next direction of where they're going. And I love hearing that. And then I love hearing from them like six months later saying “Listen I met with you six months ago and thank you so much for that and because of that, here I am now.” And that actual extended follow up, the second email or card that I get from them, and the card is a little classier than an email. So, if you can actually handwrite an actual card and be a little quote unquote old fashioned about that, it really shows that you've gone that extra mile. But to do that second follow up and say, “because of that I'm now here or the inspiration that I got led me to this, led me to that, led me to this. And you know, now I would think of me doing this now because I'd love to work with you at some point down the road, you know?” And that's huge.

Allison Haskovic: I have a trick. If you're ever unsure whether the etiquette of something is OK, map it on to dating, metaphorically, right? So is it creepy or is it kosher if it's in dating. So, for instance you're at a restaurant and there's a couple next to you at the table and they're talking about being in the entertainment industry and you think, “This is my shot! I've gotta, kind of, give them my card and tell them what I'm doing.” Okay let's map that onto dating, right? There's a couple at a restaurant next to you. You over hear them talking. You lean in and you say, “Hey I heard you're single. Here's my card. I'd like to hook up with you later.” Do you do that? Probably don’t do that. So then don't do it in business.

Julie Harris Walker: That’s excellent.

Stephanie Hall Marin: Hard one to follow.

Julie Harris Walker: Ok, Stephanie.

Stephanie Hall Marin: I would say be proactive without being pushy. So, go out and get out of your comfort zone make sure you are actively always looking for new people and really caring about who they are and not doing things just for the immediate gain. So, like, for instance. The event that I have, like a movie just got made because they all met at my event. Like, it to me, that's the coolest thing that's ever happened. And I'm so happy that I was a part of that. I don't benefit from that in any way. But you know what? Like, if I knew to make a movie with them I'm gonna be able to make that call. So proactive without being pushy and really being respectful of everybody in their meeting.

Rachel Walens: I'd say not just thinking about what you're gaining from the situation. And, kind of building on what you're saying a bit, help other people because they'll remember you for it and you just never know. I mean this industry is so small, again, so you just never know whether, even if it's not necessarily that they're immediately going to help you, but think about, you know, building together. Like find your peer group and build each other up because that's going to be your support network later. So instead of this mentality of you know we are all instilled with this mentality of competitiveness because these jobs are very scarce and it's very, can be really hard to get them and then retain them and then find new ones. But if you have built yourself a network and built it up around you, you have a much stronger chance of getting that next job, rather than you know, cheating and beating everyone else, then it's like “OK great. Now you're on your own.” Good luck to you.

Julie Harris Walker: OK we'll take that as the final word and that is it for our networking episode.

Julie Harris Walker: This has been Catch A Break the insider’s guide to breaking into and navigating Hollywood. I'm Julie Harris Walker. We want to thank our panelists Stephanie Hall Marin, Rachel Walens, Allison Haskovic, Shirley Davis, and Jeanette Volturno. And special thanks to our intern Akiva Nemetsky and our consultant Lee Schneider of Red Cup Studios. Thanks also to Audio Department who generously provided the recording equipment and Jean Malanaphy who designed our logo. And a big thank you to Andrew Joslin who created our theme song “Mantra for a Struggling Artist,” and any additional music you hear throughout. Catch A Break is produced by Jeanette Volturno, Jessica Malanaphy, Marcei Brown, Rick Osako. Shirley Davis and me. Julie Harris Walker. Now be sure to go check out our next episode. It's called Freelancing and Finances. We're going to break down everything that you need to know to work as a freelancer. How do you set up your life so that you can manage all the money that you're getting in this really uncertain industry? How do you budget? How do you save? How do you keep your overhead low? What does it mean to be an independent contractor or a loan out company? What are all the tax implications? We're going to go through all that stuff so go get that episode, Freelancing and Finances. You can find us at CatchABreakpodcast.com and that is also where you can go to download the bonus materials. Join our mailing list so you don't miss an episode or other programs. And we want to hear from you. So, reach out to the web site. Again, that's CatchABreakpodcast.com and also follow us on Facebook and on Twitter. Thanks for listening and we hope this helps you to Catch A Break.