EP 401: The Director and Producers
Julie Harris Oliver: [00:00:00] This is the Catch a Break podcast, the insider’s guide to breaking into and navigating the entertainment industry. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. You can find us at catchabreakpodcast.com and all the social media places @CatchABreakPod, as well as all the podcast places.
The presenting sponsor of Season 4 of Catch A Break is Santa Clarita Studios a full service independent studio featuring 35 sound stages, an amazing new back lot featuring a New York and LA downtown street with interiors and an alley, fully furnished production office space and suite style executive offices, along with post-production space dedicated to providing an attentive and personally tailored experience for all of their clients, Santa Clarita Studios offers rentals and services to meet any need, any budget. Find them at santaclaritastudios.com.
This season is going to be such a special treat, and I realize I'm totally biased, [00:01:00] but this in particular is fun for me and hopefully for you too. This is going to be the Project Greenlight Season.
Hopefully as a listener of the show, you are also aware of the show, Project Greenlight, and if not, go watch it now on Max . Project Greenlight is a docu-follow show of the making of an independent film by an emerging director. Well, lucky us, one of our founders, Jeanette Volturno, was a producer on this season of the film inside of Project Greenlight called Gray Matter, along with her producing partner and new friend of Catch A Break, but old friend to all of us, Yolanda T. Cochran. This has given us a front row seat to the behind the scenes of the behind the scenes and all the things the show didn't show. Very meta. These episodes are not tied to the series episodes, so you can binge both in no particular order, and we just can't be worried about any spoilers. It's all out there. Listen at your own risk.
For this opening episode, speaking of spoilers, I sat down with the director of Gray Matter. I'm pausing just in case you wanna go watch that first episode before you listen. Okay. Ready? [00:02:00] Okay. I sat down with the director Meko Winbush, along with the producers, Jeanette and Yolanda.
They talked about what it was like to work on this film with cameras in their faces, the challenge of making an indie film, and what they're most proud of through this process. Okay. Settle in. Have a listen.
Welcome to Catch a Break. Today we have Jeanette Volturno, who you must have heard several times on this podcast.
And if you haven't, go back and listen to all the seasons. She's a co-founder of CatchLight Studios. She's worked on over 60 feature films including the Academy Award-winning pictures, Whiplash, and Get Out. Jeanette most recently served as the producer of The Aviary and Songbird, the first film to shoot in Los Angeles during the Covid 19 lockdown, as well as the upcoming film, Poker Face.
Jeanette has also executive produced numerous films including Look Both Ways, Amma, and Night Books. Prior to this role, Jeanette worked as a line producer on the hugely successful Paranormal Activity and Insidious franchises, which laid the foundation for Blumhouse's success. Hello, Jeanette.
Jeanette Volturno: Hi, Julie.
Julie Harris Oliver: Welcome.
Jeanette Volturno: Thank you..
Julie Harris Oliver: We also have [00:03:00] Yolanda T. Cochran, Executive Vice President of Production at Nuts and Bolts, a division of CatchLight Studios. Yolanda's producing credits include the Book of Eli, Dolphin Tale 1 and 2, Something Borrowed, Joyful Noise, Lottery Ticket, Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, Two Beautiful Creatures, Point Break, and The Blindside.
The former CPA is a member of the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences, serving on the board governance committee, as well as the Television Academy of Arts and Sciences, and the Board of Directors of the Producers Guild of America. Welcome Yolanda
Yolanda T. Cochran: Hello people.
Julie Harris Oliver: Hello, and we also have Meko Winbush.
Meko Winbush is an LA native. She attended Occidental College and graduated with a BA in art history and the visual arts. After college, she pursued a career in film trailer editing, while also honing her craft as a writer in her free time. Over the past decade, she has edited film trailers for all major studios and streaming platforms.
She's best known for her Conjuring teaser, Hide and Clap. A desire to be creative outside [00:04:00] of the trailer industry led her to writing and directing several short films. She's an avid photographer and she hates spiders.
Welcome to my Spider free
And also we should say, she was the director of Gray Matter.
Meko Winbush: Yes, indeed. All right.
Julie Harris Oliver: Here's how we start on this podcast. We say, what was your first job and how did you get it? Jeanette, I think you've answered this question eight times on this show. So do you have a new job you wanted to talk about or a new early job?
Jeanette Volturno: A new early job. I did a lot of craft service for music videos back in the heyday of music videos. I would like be meticulous with food. It would be making plays and trays and walking up into the catwalks to hand the people up in the catwalks food and drink who couldn't come down to the craft service table.
So you better... food is important to me. You better have good food on set.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Jeanette's all about the food.
Julie Harris Oliver: Not to brag, but we are [00:05:00] totally doing this with a huge charcuterie spread and wine. So, amen. Take it all with a grain.
Meko. What was your first job in the business and how did you get it?
Meko Winbush: My first job in the business that I was paid for?
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Meko Winbush: My first job was I, I did a 10 week internship through the LA County Arts Organization. It was paid, gave you a stipend, and I did it at AFI with the directing workshop for women.
Julie Harris Oliver: Excellent.
Meko Winbush: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: I wanna talk a little bit more about editing trailers. How do you get into that? I think you're the first person who's been on the show who does that.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. So, I was lucky enough to get a job as a PA at New Wave Entertainment here in Burbank, and I started as a runner and they were doing trailers. And actually soon after I started, they got rid of the trailer department, but they were still doing a bunch of like DVD special features for like Harry Potter and Fast and the Furious, like just a ton of Warner Brothers, Universal.
Julie Harris Oliver: We gotta remember DVDs?.
Meko Winbush: Yeah, yeah. DVD special features. So I kind of worked my way up from runner, [00:06:00] PA to like logger and then assistant editor and then, which is crazy cause the person who was like the lead night AE who taught me, who trained me, was Sam Esmail, who went on to do Mr. Robot, all of that.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Did you have any experience cutting at all before this?
Meko Winbush: I mean, I, in college I had learned like Final Draft and stuff like that and I did like to cut on my own. Yeah. Sorry. Final Cut. Yeah, and I did like to cut on my own.
Yolanda T. Cochran: They always wonder that, like when you say like when you started cutting trailers, like I wondered if you were cutting before that.
Meko Winbush: No, I knew, like I knew how to edit and stuff like that and, and I was obsessed, you know, in high school I used to watch that show Coming Attractions. You guys remember? I used to like record that on VHS and just like, yeah, watch that all the time.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Meko is a BLERD actually's, a BLERD .
Meko Winbush: So yeah, I used to like, yeah, I was, I used to just love trailers.
So yeah, I was there and then there was an opportunity at this company called Budha Jones Trailers in [00:07:00] Hollywood, who was just a trailer company, and they needed some assistant editors. So I, I jumped ship over there and then I was working at this swing midnight shift, like four to midnight. And, after I finished my work, I would just stay late and kind of look at other editors' home lines and see kind of what sound design they were using and how they were using it and just structure and all that. And I just started cutting on my own time and stuff. And I cook this like Friday the 13th TVs and they were like, yeah, we're gonna send this to the, they freaking loved it. They finished it and I got like nominated for it. And, and then yeah, they made it . So, yeah, it's definitely one of those jobs where like it's your rewarded for the time you put into it in your free time, the time when you're not getting paid. And so yeah, I kind of just put a lot of sweat equity into it. It paid off.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. You made that happen.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. Yeah.
And luckily I was just in a really good company and place where they're super good at kind of growing you up within the, [00:08:00] and promoting from within. There were a lot of really cool, like editors who I would show my cuts to and who would give me notes and things and stuff like that. So I've always really liked like working with incoming, you know, editors and mentoring and because I, I wouldn't be where I was if people hadn't taken the time to, to help me out. So I think it's important to do the same.
Julie Harris Oliver: That is so what it's about.
Meko Winbush: Yeah, absolutely.
Julie Harris Oliver: Hey, Yolanda, first job and how'd you get it?
Yolanda T. Cochran: First job was, I'm trying to remember, I'm, I have to, you know, pull the cobwebs back. But...
Julie Harris Oliver: it's like in the way back machine.
Yolanda T. Cochran: It was actually, so how Julian and I met, we worked in this particular department at Walt Disney Company.
I left that job and I can't remember if I had this job first or if I quit. I, but I didn't quit jobs at that time without having a job, so I must have gotten the job. Anyway, there was a movie that at the time was called Eaters of the Dead.
Julie Harris Oliver: As, [00:09:00] you do.
Yolanda T. Cochran: That changed to The 13th Warrior. It was shooting in Canada, in Vancouver, and they had, they were shooting on Vancouver Island and they had massive wind rainstorms that like destroyed all their sets. And they had like massive insurance claims and they needed someone to come and process all of that claim.
Julie Harris Oliver: You started out in accounting?
Yolanda T. Cochran: I was in accounting. I was in production accounting ish. And so they needed someone to come do that and I was like, sign me up. And so my first job was I processed six or seven insurance claims because they did them each day because they had had so much massive, like they had, besides all the sets being destroyed, other things had happened, so they had about six or seven insurance claims and they needed, obviously if you have that many insurance claims. And it was a massive production. The entire crew was on distant location on the island, [00:10:00] so they needed someone to come and process those. And so that was my first job to come in, like prepare all the insurance claims to be submitted.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay. If you are new to this business, that is a nightmare.
Yeah, so you have it. Let's just explain that. Like you have to record all the costs and all the loss.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah, and this is before the digital age. This was in 1990, I don't know, 1995. Somewhere in there. 95, somewhere between 95 and 97. So in order to prepare the insurance claims, you had to substantiate the amount of cost to the insurance company of what that day or the loss cost, and you didn't have digital. And so it was all about preparing photocopies of all the costs that happened on that day. For all your labor, all your equipment, everything. You had to look at the coding. I had to get the ledgers. I had to, yeah. It was weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks of [00:11:00] work and lots of photocopying at the photocopy machine for hours. People would come to the photocopy machine and be so angry at me because I was still standing there. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Now, if that sounds good to you, we are in desperate need of accountants right now, so sign up!
All right, Meko, we're gonna start with you. Now, you directed the movie inside the Project Greenlight Show.
Meko Winbush: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: And I know you did a bunch of stuff before that, like shorts, and you did the trailer editing and all of that. But I understand this is your first feature film that you directed?
Meko Winbush: Sure Mm-hmm..
Julie Harris Oliver: With people who have been working in film and TV a long time.
Meko Winbush: Mm-hmm.
Julie Harris Oliver: Wow. First of all.
And how did that, how did that change your approach or how did you think about that differently? How'd you prepare yourself to go in and do that?
Meko Winbush: I mean, I think it's, I was definitely kind of happy that I was like, oh, there's all these people whose job it is to do these things that like me and my friends have to do ourselves cause there was no money and we're like painting rooms and [00:12:00] buying props and figuring out all this, you know, getting insurance and blah, blah, picking up stuff and then all of that. So it was nice. It was like, oh wow, there's like people whose job it is to do that and I can, I get to just focus on directing and, and stuff like that.
So yeah, it was definitely like a positive, a lot of excitement and to be doing it in general.
Julie Harris Oliver: How was it to communicate like your vision and how you wanted things to go to all these different people and did you have a learning curve on that?
Meko Winbush: There was a little bit, cause I, I tend to be, I guess I'm not as loquacious as I should be sometimes. So, definitely like if I can, yeah, I don't talk a lot I guess. My pet peeve is people who talk a lot but don't say anything. So, I probably will say two sentences, which, you know, sometimes you need to be a little more descriptive. But no, luckily we hired really cool people that was really fun to collaborate with.
And like, like for instance, just [00:13:00] even like our costume designer, Rahema, like, she was really fun to like talk to and kind of come up with things and she would present ideas cause that's the thing, I can't think of everything, you know? So it's like, that's why you hire these people and who read the script and they come up with their own ideas and they present things to you and you're like, "ooh, I like that, but I don't like this." And "is there, you know, something that's more this," and you know, it's a collaboration, which I really liked. So yeah, a lot of that was just like trusting these people and kind of explaining just the overall look and, and making comparisons to other movies or this or that and just how we were gonna shoot things, how we were gonna light things, and them configuring how to work with it, those parameters and stuff like that.
But yeah, we actually really enjoyed it and like we hired some really dope people who were just, yeah, so fun to work with. And I, you know, I'd be lucky to work with anyone again. Yeah, it was pretty easy to kind of just trust them and like, cause I'm not, I don't like to micromanage, so it's just like, look, these are professionals, I'm gonna [00:14:00] trust them to do their things so I can focus on things that, that I'm supposed to be doing.
Jeanette Volturno: Which is what?
Meko Winbush: Directing . . Just like, you know, working with the actors and prepping and like, see like, working with my DP and like figuring out how we're gonna shoot things and, and I mean, yeah, just a lot to just get in front of when there's only 18 days and stuff like that.
Jeanette Volturno: I can only imagine what you were thinking from the time that we said, oh one to the time that we started shooting it was
Yolanda T. Cochran: Seven weeks. Yeah.
Jeanette Volturno: I mean, that's ridiculous. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Was the script done, ready to go?
Meko Winbush: No, not at all. It was like, there were still kind of parts in the script that were like, I'm not sure what's gonna go here, we'll figure it out. Like yeah, there's chunks that, you know, the writer was, God bless him, was still trying to like work out and yeah, so there was, yeah, we were spending quite a bit of time on the phone in the evenings, just on top of like all the other stuff and like still trying to cast and so yeah, it [00:15:00] definitely did make it kind of hard when I was trying to plan the shots and this and that, you know? What it's gonna be like sitting with the locations and yeah, trying to figure out everything.
Jeanette Volturno: But that's probably the meat of the show, isn't it?
Meko Winbush: Yeah. Just like, yeah, the, I mean, I think, it's probably, they made it a bigger deal than it was.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Were you sleeping? Like, what were you thinking, like once you got home and the cameras are off, like what, what were you thinking? Like what were you like, oh my God,
Meko Winbush: I was thinking like,
Yolanda T. Cochran: Or were you spending time like trying to figure stuff out? Or were you just like, okay, I'm just gonna get, you know, tomorrow, we'll be tomorrow and we'll do it again, or
Meko Winbush: No, there was definitely like, yeah, when I would get home, just because I was working with Phil, the writer, like, trying to help him, so a lot of time was spent like talking with him and trying to figure out stuff with him. And then there was a moment where we were kind of dividing and conquering cause it's just like, he's just one person, he can't do it. So I'm like doing these massive rewrites and stuff like that. So I was also trying to like help [00:16:00] him in the evenings and stuff like that.
But like, yeah, no, it was, it was still trying to get, you know, six, at least six hours of sleep or whatever. Because it's just like if you start wearing yourself out that early, like, it's a marathon, it's not a sprint. So you gotta, yeah. You do have to sort of pace yourself and Yeah, so I, you know, luckily I kind of know that just from trailers and stuff where it's, it's a marathon and you know, you still need to conserve energy for all the, all of these other things because yeah, you're constantly just making decisions all day.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Were you ever worried?
Meko Winbush: No.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Were you ever worried?
Jeanette Volturno: I wasn't either. They asked me. Did they ask you that? They asked, they asked me a few times recently about like my level of worry and I was like, I was never worried.
Meko Winbush: No, I was never worried either. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay. When you're talking about they, now we're talking about the reality TV show.
So you all had cameras on you as you did this the entire time, watching your every move, mic you up when you got out of the car. How was that? How did that...
Jeanette Volturno: It was our own private Truman Show.[00:17:00]
Yolanda T. Cochran: It was really interesting. I, I mean,
Meko Winbush: How many texts did you get about, "what's your eta?"
Yolanda T. Cochran: I always got texts about ETA. They wanted to know, they wanted to know precisely when you were getting there so that they could be prepared to record you, driving, all the things. I was like, whatever it, you know, I, for me, I had the expectation of all of that, so it was like, okay, whatever, blah, blah, blah.
The recording of what we were doing was not something that was a surprise to me and kind of like the extra of like, oh, the minute you arrive, you get the mic on and blah, blah, blah. None of that was a surprise to me. I think what, for me, and I think for Jeanette, you can say you know for yourself, but I definitely developed some new producorial muscles that I did not have before.
Jeanette Volturno: Absolutely. But you also said like without the show we wouldn't have the film, so we had to learn how to play that dance [00:18:00] of we're making this movie, we don't wanna stop and pay attention to the show, otherwise the movie will get derailed. And we don't wanna ignore the show because that is part of the movie. Like we're symbiotic in that.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah. But our primary role was to make the movie. Not the series.
Julie Harris Oliver: And I know you both are very committed to having very inclusive sets that are low drama. . Like how obligated to making good television did you feel as you were making this movie?
Jeanette Volturno: I mean I felt like we were in tunnel vision. I felt like I was trying to block out all the stuff that was happening around us and just focusing on making a good movie. It was like, just focus on that and try to ignore the rest. We had a safe word.
We had a safe word so if we ever needed to like look at our texts or something. One time you kicked me under the chair.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yes! I was like, [00:19:00] no, don't do that. No, we felt no obligation to make a good TV show or to not not make a good TV show. What Jeanette and I were symbiotic in our task was to make an excellent movie. And the situation was that we were gonna be making this movie in a situation in which we were being documented while we were making the movie.
And there probably was interest in the things that are dramatic in those situations, being something that is better for the television show than it would be for the film. And so we were constantly managing how do we keep this balance of keeping things in a positive, proactive, forward projection of the filmmaking while we're also being recorded, because sometimes, oftentimes when you're making movies or you're making anything, any kind [00:20:00] of, you know, filmed project, things happen and sometimes it requires a little bit of nuance and it requires a little bit of like, you know, shuffling around and tailoring, like who's seeing what and who's hearing what, and all these things.
But in this circumstance, it was like they hear everything and the minute we'd say something, a camera would show up in our doorway.
Meko Winbush: And I told them from day one, I was, I'm very boring, like, like, I don't know.
Yolanda T. Cochran: How'd you feel about that Meko?
Meko Winbush: Yeah. Apparently, apparently, like one of my favorite words, or phrase is I like to say "it's fine."
"It's fine."
And I guess apparently that is an issue. It's often passive aggressive or like, or that I don't care or whatever, and it's like, no, like it's fine. No, that means it's fine.
Jeanette Volturno: No, really. It's fine.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. You're good.. I don't like
Yolanda T. Cochran: Moving on like,
Meko Winbush: I [00:21:00] don't have to put an exclamation mark on the end of everything. Like no, it's fine. Like what do you ...
Jeanette Volturno: But seriously, we had no drama. We really had very little drama on
Yolanda T. Cochran: We did. Yeah. Had very little.
Jeanette Volturno: But like in all of the years that I've made low budget films, this was one of the ones we were on budget, on time. Yes, we had a couple of days that were a nail biter and long and whatnot. But, for the most part, it was pretty damn smooth. And you got pretty much everything you wanted, like, you know.
Julie Harris Oliver: Did any of you ever forget the cameras?
Meko Winbush: No. Never. No. You always knew they were there, because there were multiple ones.
Yolanda T. Cochran: I keep telling people, I keep telling people recently that my inner dialogue was like, "what does my face look like right now?"
Jeanette Volturno: A hundred percent. I was like, they're always filming me.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Cause you were always eating!
Meko Winbush: There's times though, like people, [00:22:00] people forget that I'm wearing a mic and they're not wearing one. So they come up and they'll say something and I'm just like.
Sometimes I'll just walk away cause it's like I don't want, I kinda like want to protect other people.
Yolanda T. Cochran: I know. I would constantly be like, don't.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. Pointing at your mic, shaking my head.
Yolanda T. Cochran: If there, if there was sometimes somebody started talking and I'd be like, point, I'm pointing at my mic right now for those of you who can't see.
Jeanette Volturno: We could probably make a very interesting book out of all of the text chains.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yes. Quite.
Jeanette Volturno: From various departments.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Meko Winbush: A lot of, a lot of texting and stuff like that too.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay. Can we go back to, you said you worked with so many dope people, can we talk about the hiring of those dope people? Cause you did it so fast, but you also were very thoughtful and intentional about it.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Well, you, you, you, I mean, you've [00:23:00] got
Jeanette Volturno: I mean. You know, yeah. We, we've worked with so many fantastic people and we interviewed a lot of great people and we just wanted to reflect the world around us. And so it was really about personality first and foremost. And did they have the vision for Miko, and were they up for doing a tier one?
It's hard. It's nights, it's in Pomona. Like we needed to get people that had the right personality and, and it really just felt effortless. It felt like,
Yolanda T. Cochran: And I'd say like, you know, Jeanette and I both have been in positions to need to gather the, the gaggle of people or who are gonna show up. But in this particular circumstance, it was entirely for us to create those groupings without a ton of input beforehand of who those groupings were gonna be.
And because we are both super [00:24:00] intentional about making sure that candidate pool is a good one in all respects and talented, skilled, representative, we were able to create candidate lists that were great and all of those things without having the barriers to putting that pool together. And so we brought great groups of people and we had really, I mean, there were lots of people in each one of the categories that could have done a great job.
And so we ended up with the best of the best. When you do that, people, that's the thing that people don't understand in the conversation. They think, oh, well, but you wanna hire people who are qualified. Well, yes, exactly.
Julie Harris Oliver: You're talking about hiring in a diverse way.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Correct.
Julie Harris Oliver: Diverse pool of candidates.
Jeanette Volturno: But it felt very organic.
Yolanda T. Cochran: It totally was. It wasn't like, oh, we need one of these.
Jeanette Volturno: No, there was no checkbox.
Yolanda T. Cochran: There was no checkbox at all. It was just intentional selection of great people. And also, like Jeanette said, making sure we were bringing [00:25:00] people who were going to be supportive of and mesh well with Meko in coming in at where she was coming in from her career of making stuff.
Julie Harris Oliver: And it sounds like, which I can't imagine being in this position, coming into the, to do this job of having the confidence, and I think probably cause you've, you're a writer and an editor and a director and all the things so, it sounds like you had a very clear vision and had the confidence to just go in and do it.
Did you, did you worry about that or think about that, or you just, you're, this is my thing and I'm just doing it?
Meko Winbush: Yeah. I think it was a little bit of just like, this is my thing, and I think all the people that we talked to and we hired, like they understood the assignment, you know? And I feel like I'm, I'm pretty easy to get along with and I'm pretty easy, like I can kind of adjust my thermostat, so to speak, to, to, you know, get along with people and, and stuff like that, usually.
Jeanette Volturno: I'll tell you, we had a big sigh of relief when you were the one that was chosen.
Meko Winbush: Nice.
Jeanette Volturno: And we had a side conversation with [00:26:00] Meko before we started and we were like, look, we're here to support you, first and foremost. It's about your vision and supporting you. So sidebar with us wherever you need it. Like, this is weird for all of us having a camera in our face and we're with you. And you know, and so having that trust and that, that open door right from the beginning and never breaking that trust was I think our secret sauce.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. No, and that was like a big part too. It's just like knowing that I had like these ladies in the corner and like who had all this experience too. It definitely, cause you know, I was, you know, entrusting them behind the scenes to like, I'm sure there was a gazillion problems that you guys had to deal with that I never even knew about so that I could just focus on what I was, yeah, trying to do. But there was stuff where it was just like, I want to know how a budget works. And so like you guys sat down with me and took me through every single page of this like 70 something page budget. And like, there was things I didn't even know about. Like, you know, if you have a plant on set, then you have to hire a [00:27:00] greens person. Or if you have an animal, even a goldfish, you gotta hire like, like just things that cut into your budget. And I was like, well man.
All these things that I didn't know about, just how it works and the pace like, yeah, which was really cool cause it's like, yeah, I wanna learn, like, I wanna know at least like a little bit about everything and, and you know, there's some things that line up a little bit more like yeah, I definitely wanna learn more about producing, and not just as a title, but actually like the work and all of that.
Julie Harris Oliver: Well then you can make better decisions.
Meko Winbush: Sure.
Julie Harris Oliver: Cause you're not just like being this crazy person and gimme everything .
Meko Winbush: Right. Yeah.
Like making concessions on things and like saving things for like, there's certain things where I'm like, no, I'm gonna die on this hill for this thing and other things I'm like, it's not that big a deal. Like they figured,
Yolanda T. Cochran: It's fine.
Meko Winbush: It's fine, it's fine. It's fine. We're good. It's fine.
Julie Harris Oliver: And how, how do you pivot when, when you have a vision for something, then you realize, oh, I'm gonna have to give up [00:28:00] something else to get that, and I'm not willing to give up the other thing, like how would you make those decisions?
Meko Winbush: I just remember there was like this, I can't remember who said it to me, but there's a thing where the audience never knows, they're never gonna know what you didn't get. They're only aware of what you show them. So it's like,
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh, that's good.
Meko Winbush: They're not gonna know. So can the story still function without this?
And yes, like 90% of the time it can. And a lot of that just comes from being an editor. Like, you know, you're telling a story in two and a half minutes, so like, and sometimes 30 seconds, so you kind of know like just through that, what you actually need and don't need.
Julie Harris Oliver: That must make you so much more efficient.
Meko Winbush: Yeah, I think so. Definitely helps. I mean, granted we didn't really have the time to overshoot, going back to the coverage, but I wouldn't do that in general. Like even if we did have an extra two days. Cause it's like, no, we, we have it like let's go.
Yolanda T. Cochran: I was immediately like in this, when we were selecting, like we were in the selection process and I was like, and it came up too during that [00:29:00] actual selection day where we met you guys in interview, but as soon as I knew you were an editor and it came up in discussion, I was like, oh yeah, she's gonna know immediately what we need and what we don't need.
Jeanette Volturno: I think you were always in our top five.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeanette Volturno: From the very beginning, you were always in our top five. We were like one to watch. Yeah.
Yolanda T. Cochran: For sure.
Julie Harris Oliver: I mean, speaking of the competition of it all, I understand they brought in all women directors, which as you know, there's such a shortage of women directors.
Jeanette Voltunro: Oh my God.
Yolanda T. Cochran: I really wanna hire women! But if only I could find, said them. If only there were some out there.
Julie Harris Oliver: If only there were some, and if only they weren't such catty, catty bitches when you put them all... No okay, so what actually happened?
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah,
Jeanette Volturno: This is my favorite thing that you always say.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the first thing was before we even got to Meko and we had, we had, we had 25, we had presented 25 people of like the last set of people to get to the 10.
And they were all great, like [00:30:00] looking at all the reels and reading about them and all the things, and I was like, oh my God, these are, every single one down to a person were amazing, capable female directors. And I got so mad because I'm like, okay, why are we saying that we cannot find women to direct?
Because we wanna hire them, but we can't find them. And here are literally, these are only the 25 that they've shown me like, and I actually ended up meeting and interfacing with some other people. Actually, one of the production designer candidates we met with came from a referral from another director who didn't make it to the finals.
Julie Harris Oliver: Gotcha.
Yolanda T. Cochran: But anyway, It's just like, what?
Jeanette Volturno: And they were from all over.
Yolanda T. Cochran: They were from all over the place.
Jeanette Volturno: Baltimore, Minnesota. Like all over.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Such great candidates. And so I'm like, it it, I actually got [00:31:00] pissed off because I'm like, this is so, like, this is easy. Like this is easy. How?
Julie Harris Oliver: It's a myth.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: So when we hear it in the room of people saying, oh, we'd love to, but we just can't possibly cause they don't exist, like we all have to just stop that narrative in its tracks cause people just in the room go, "oh yeah, you're right."
Jeanette Volturno: I'll tell you what it is though. It's actors need to give these women a break and sign on to their projects so they will get green lit.
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm. . Yeah.
Yolanda T. Cochran: But part of it, I agree, but like the people who are making the decision of choosing who's going to direct the picture need to not say, "I can't find a female director to do this." Because they actually believe that they're not out there. Like they're not, because they'll give the same similarly situated director who is not a female, who may not have done their first feature yet or whatever, or something commercial. They will give that person the opportunity to have their first feature. But they'll be like, I can't find any [00:32:00] female directors.
Meko Winbush: Oh. And that was the interesting thing too. It's like sometimes I, you know, I would look up a director on IMDB, like a, a male director, and it's like they did two shorts and then suddenly they're doing a feature. And I'm like, how?
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Jeanette Volturno: How many shorts did you do?
Meko Winbush: Uh, three. Yeah. So, yeah, and I remember they asked me like during the quote unquote, audition, they're like, why do you think you can do a feature? And it's like, well why not? Like is it for that reason? I look at like these other people and it's like, you did two shorts and then you gotta handed a feature. Like there's no reason I can't, it's just a longer, longer short, essentially.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah, yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: It's a long.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. So women, women need to have the confidence to say they can do it. Yeah, yeah.
Yolanda T. Cochran: For sure.
Julie Harris Oliver: And everyone else has to have the confidence to hire them.
Yolanda T. Cochran: And down to a person, like literally, I mean, we kind of, we, you know, we had our discussion about like, you know, the selection process and all the different people and like, you know, we kind of had some laughs and so on and so forth.
But literally I can imagine, down to a person, [00:33:00] working with every single one of those 25 women.
Julie Harris Oliver: Wonderful. And now you know them and you're gonna make more movies.
Jeanette Volturno: Yeah, we've met quite a few of them. Yeah.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. No, and I spent the day with like, that day we, they took us all to Warner Brothers and we were all kind of like waiting for our turn to pitch and like we had all met each other the night before too at this like happy hour thingy. But yeah, there were a couple that like, yeah, I had like some really good conversations with, and it's like, oh, we like a lot of the same stuff. Like, yeah, we're at, you know, before I was like, I would love to work with this person, or you know, and most of them, yeah, I still talk to on social media and stuff like that, and I'm seeing their projects and like, they're all just immensely talented, so.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah. And this woman there, there was a, this one director who's kind of doing some stuff who didn't make it to that 25, but helped us find a potential production designer to replace our one that we lost. She's, you know, she's doing stuff and she'll, her, and then a couple other people will check in and be like, oh, "how did it go," whatever, but they're totally [00:34:00] rooting for you. Like, they're totally like, they're like, oh, I can't wait to see it! They're totally happy for you.
Meko Winbush: On Instagram, they're like, how's it going? Blah, blah, blah. Like, you know. They're all like super, super cool. Yeah.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah. Love it.
Julie Harris Oliver: Love it, love it. Getting back to the budget size and the indie of it all, like I know you two producers could be producing anything out there. You could be producing a hundred million dollar movies.
Meko Winbush: Facts.
Julie Harris Oliver: Why, why are you still doing this budget range?
Jeanette Volturno: I love independent film and I love giving back and teaching and supporting and having that, that voice, that independent voice. You know, I just, I just love that world.
Yolanda T. Cochran: I have to give Jeanette her flowers on this because this is where it was great for me to really partner with her because this is her jam.
For me. I've done like under a million. I know how to do under a [00:35:00] million really well, and I know how to do 20 million to 120 million really well. That space in between, I haven't really done that much at all. And that's Jeanette's jam. And there were times where it's like, and I was like, really? We're doing this movie for how much money?
And Jeanette was like, yeah, yeah we're gonna do it! We're gonna do it! And I'm like okay okay!
Jeanette Volturno: The other day I saw something of, and it was made for how much, how many times more our budget?
Yolanda T. Cochran: The New Mutants. The New Mutants. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Just, just to make sure everybody knows, Jeanette, you made that model that Blumhouse did all their films for like the teeny little budget you sell it for huge amount of money at the end and
Jeanette Volturno: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's, I, I don't know. There's a freedom in it when you know that this is your box and you have to be even more creative with what time and resources you [00:36:00] have. So you have to be very intentional about the decisions, and you have to look at where you wanna put the money to make the most bang for the buck on the project.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. There's a, there's, a saying, or like a thing where it's like sometimes when you have limitations, it forces you to be more creative.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Meko Winbush: So it's just like, even as a photographer, there's some days where I'll just bring like one lens, and even though I'll, like, I'll be out and I'll be like, dang, I wish I had this.
But no, you still make it work and it forces you to be more creative and get shots that you probably wouldn't have gotten if,
Yolanda T. Cochran: if you had the options.
Meko Winbush: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it definitely forces you to be more creative, and I think that's cool.
Jeanette Volturno: And what you and Byron did in editing took it to a whole other level.
And then what sound design did.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah. Oh my god, yes.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. No, absolutely, man, Byron's now a BFF. Byron was our editor, and like, yeah, we're BFFs now.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Jeanette Volturno: Editor.
Meko Winbush: Yep. I call him a editor. I just call him editor, like making like Instagram stories editor. I had friends who were like, wait, do you really [00:37:00] call him that all the time or? It's like, well, sometimes.
Julie Harris Oliver: You know, that's really important to learn people's names.
Meko Winbush: He's, he's like, great sense of humor and like, yeah, we spent all summer in a bay together,
Julie Harris Oliver: friends now.
Meko Winbush: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yolanda T. Cochran: I can't believe how disciplined you were and how like you were not itching to actually cut yourself.
Meko Winbush: Oh no. There were moments the first week.
Jeanette Volturno: I almost took a bet on that.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Meko Winbush: No, the first week cause I'm not used to, like trailer editors are just insanely fast cause you just have to be, so it's just a different, you're just like the, the sprinters of the editing world and, and yeah. Feature editors, again, it's like a marathon and, you know, it's more meticulous. And so, so that first week I would ask him to do something and, I was just like, wait, what's going on? I was like, oh.
So it took, you know, a week for me [00:38:00] to learn. I was like, oh, this is, this is just how,
Yolanda T. Cochran: Just a different pace.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. Different.
Julie Harris Oliver: Like why's it not done yet.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. Yeah. So once, once I realized that like it was fine, so I would just chill on the couch.
Yolanda T. Cochran: But even still of like, not actually like putting your hands on the keyboard.
Meko Winbush: I would stand up and go look over his shoulder at something on the screen. I'd put my hands behind my back so I wouldn't wanna like grab the mouse.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Right. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Is it like watching your parents try to email?
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Meko Winbush: I looked at your questions last night and I typed quick little, you know, whatever cause sometimes you just forget things and I forgot my laptop and I called my dad. Like can you just email me that? It's on my desktop. And he thought I meant like, the, the desk. I was like, Dad, the desktop! It was the most frustrating [00:39:00] five minutes. Like I was like, are you scrolling? Dad, the desktop! There's a file on there. And my dad's a computer guy. So it's like, Dad, no the laptop. What are you? Yeah, so ,
Julie Harris Oliver: That's adorable.
Meko Winbush: Yeah he was trolling me.
Julie Harris Oliver: Alright. So how did the movie turn out?
Yolanda T. Cochran: It turned out great. Yeah. Super proud of it. I think it's really great.
Jeanette Volturno: I really, really wanted to have a theatrical release.
Julie Harris Oliver: Are they showing it on HBO Max?
Yolanda T. Cochran: Well, it's HBO Max. We will have a small theatrical release. There will be a small one, but
Jeanette Volturno: I just want, I want the world to demand it because I want them to see what Meko did in a Herculean effort with a tiny amount of time, with the amount of pressure with all those cameras and everything on you.
I am beyond impressed at how this turned out, and I really want it to be [00:40:00] received theatrically in the way that it should be.
Yolanda T. Cochran: That's all accurate.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yolanda plus ones.
100. Underlined red. Okay. Let's talk a little bit more about this process. Is there anything you wish you had known going in that you maybe learned the hard way that would've been better?
Yolanda T. Cochran: That's a Meko question. That's a you problem.
Meko Winbush: There's definitely, I wish, you know, when you, people talk about like, yeah, you know, you're on camera being filmed, I did not realize it would be as invasive.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Would you have done anything different though?
Meko Winbush: No, I wouldn't have
Yolanda T. Cochran: You're so you.
Meko Winbush: Yeah, like, like obviously like, you know, and there was a moment where I almost like pulled the, pulled the plug where I was just like, I don't know if I wanna, you know, be filmed all the time.
But it's just like, this is such a good opportunity and like why would you, how could you not? And yeah, and, and all that to say like, obviously like, it is like a [00:41:00] massive blessing. So it's like, I, I don't want to complain, but like, at the same time, it's just, it's not what you expect and it is super invasive and, and especially like someone who's kind of like, I guess a little private and a little introverted, or I don't know, am I?
Yolanda T. Cochran: No.
Jeanette Volturno: No.
Meko Winbush: I don't know.
Yolanda T. Cochran: You're an intro, intro extrovert.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. Yeah. So that's kinda
Julie Harris Oliver: Should we do a Meyers Briggs test?
Meko Winbush: Yeah.
Yolanda T. Cochran: You don't have to say what it was, but did you ever say anything that, you know got captured on camera that you wish you hadn't said?
Meko Winbush: I don't remember.
We were moving so fast.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah.
Meko Winbush: I would just delete stuff at the end of the night. Like, don't need it. Delete.
Julie Harris Oliver: Oh, that's impressive. I would still be hanging on too whatever I said.
Meko Winbush: There's small things like, and part of it too is just knowing how I am, like, I don't say too many off-color things in general, but like, there's times where, kind of wish I would've said like there's times where I'm like...[00:42:00]
Julie Harris Oliver: I'm curious cause I was obsessed with the last season, which now is like, what five, six years ago?
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Effie Brown and the conversation with Matt Damon heard around the world.
Jeanette Volturno: Yep.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Right.
Julie Harris Oliver: Did you feel any responsibility to, or a, did that worry you about doing. Did it, did it make you feel like you could make this kind of a corrective experience?
Yolanda T. Cochran: I actually, I'm glad you brought that up.
Yeah. I actually want to give a major thank you to Effie Brown.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah.
Yolanda T. Cochran: For that, because, were it not for her in that season, I would've been far less prepared for being in this production and the impact of that light and those cameras on you. And especially now, because that, that last season was probably the first one where there was kind of like where social was really, you know, the prior seasons, there [00:43:00] wasn't really that much social and blah, blah, whatever. Long way to say that I was every, again, I, my inner dialogue was what does my face look like right now? Like I was constantly, constantly calibrating what my expression was, how I was speaking to people, the actual words that were coming out of my mouth. Everything. Constant. I never let that guard down ever
Julie Harris Oliver: Cause we saw how much this can impact your life.
Jeanette Volturno: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you never hesitated when I asked you to partner with me and produce this with me.
Yolanda T. Cochran: I did not.
Jeanette Volturno: You did not hesitate, you said yes immediately.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Cause it was like the, the thing that I had conversations with a few people about over time who struggled a little bit with it, about being, you know, followed and all the things is, yes, this is hard, and yes, it's putting a lot of pressure on you and it can negatively [00:44:00] impact you.
However, it is also a tremendous opportunity to, for people around the world to see what it is that you are capable of doing.
Jeanette Volturno: Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: Amen.
Meko Winbush: I mean, that was my hope too, was just because I loved, growing up, watching all those behind the scenes,
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Meko Winbush: Like making of this and making of that. And like, I mean, I've watched so many James Cameron, like Terminator 2 and Alien, all of that stuff. And I thought it could be just a really cool opportunity for, you know, the young Meko, the, you know, 12 year old Meko watching that, where it's like, oh, here's someone who looks like me and here's like...
Yolanda T. Cochran: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Meko Winbush: And also there was always that thing too. You're like, what are, who are all these people on set? Like what?
Yolanda T. Cochran: What do they do? Yeah.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. And it was such a good opportunity to like, for them to kind of show what all these jobs are like, I mean, I saw them interviewing like our gaffer, Matt Hadley, who's just this mad scientist. He had everything kind of honed in on his, [00:45:00] on his laptop. And, that, whatever he does is so fascinating.
And then just even that where it's like, oh, you're into fashion. Well, here's what, here's what a costume designer does, and like this is what they do, and how they approach character, and what they're wearing. And oh, maybe you're into interior design, like you can make a job out of working, you know, with a production designer and their team, like all of these things.
And it's like, you know, I was hoping that would be the focus and not, I mean, 85% of things went really well and it's like, and instead it's like.
Yolanda T. Cochran: 90, I think 90.
Jeanette Volturno: 90. Probably.
Meko Winbush: It's like, like focus on that as opposed to like the 10% that didn't. I mean there's a reason people love the Great British Bake Off cause it's like everyone's so nice and like happy and
Julie Harris Oliver: It's so nice
Meko Winbush: And it's like guess what? That show functions great without stupid drama and whatever.
Jeanette Volturno: To be clear, we did film all of that stuff. They did interview everyone.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yes they did. It is content.
Jeanette Volturno: Roll with a positive on everything.
Yolanda T. Cochran: It could be the story. It could. It could be, could be.
Julie Harris Oliver: But we're focusing this whole season [00:46:00] of Catch a Break on all the things that went great, so.
Jeanette Volturno: That's right.
Julie Harris Oliver: We're gonna get it.
Yolanda T. Cochran: The audience is gonna get it.
Meko Winbush: My brother texted me yesterday, a picture of him and Matt Hadley. I guess they're on a project together right now.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Oh, that's great.
Meko Winbush: Oh my God!. Tell him I love him.
Yolanda T. Cochran: I know. Love Hadley.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay, tell me what, cause I know there were some hard things to do. Tell me what you are most proud of having done the show.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Love that.
Meko Winbush: Most proud of having done the show?
Julie Harris Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Meko Winbush: I think a number of things.
I mean, obviously like I'm proud of like just directing a movie in 18 days or seven weeks of pre-pro, but like also just like
Julie Harris Oliver: Pretty good.
Meko Winbush: So freaking proud of my team again, they understood the assignment and I don't even know if the camera's capture, I mean, how hard they, they freaking worked and they had such a good attitude about it and they just wanted to help like the project and like they really gave 110%.
Yeah, it just makes me really proud. Like just them, the people who were there on set when, like cause and you know some of the shoots were rough and it was cold and like they [00:47:00] still, they did their job. And then just even on the post side, like man, our sound, our sound department, I mean, they were just the dopest dudes, like our composer. He had such a short night to really compose. Our sound designer, he's kind of a nerd. He's just like, awesome. And just like,
Julie Harris Oliver: In a good way.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. So dry. He, but yeah, Jeff Pitts, he's just like, he really just had a lot of fun, sound designing it, and you could tell he put so much thought into everything, like he could've easily just kind of phoned it in and he didn't.
And, and same with like our mixer, Caleb, and obviously our editor Byron, he just put so much time and effort into it. And yeah, I mean, there's just so many, so many people.
Yolanda T. Cochran: And we should say like sound, we always knew sound was gonna be a major component of the movie experience of this, so that was big.
And Meko's a big sound person anyway, so.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. But yeah, just super proud of just every, every single name that you see.
Jeanette Volturno: I mean, every single one of those people had to not only [00:48:00] sign up to do a low budget indie movie, but have a camera and mic in their face while doing it and drive to Pomona, be up all night. I mean like it just, that was a lot to ask.
Meko Winbush: Yeah, it was a lot. Martina and her team, like they would like finish a set as we were arriving to it and then they would move on to the next location. And then it was just kind of this,
Jeanette Volturno: And she picks up food.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yes, yes.
Meko Winbush: And then she's just, she's just so funny. I love all Martina's little sayings too.
Jeanette Volturno: That department learned all about it.
Meko Winbush: "It's a dandy" and "no bother."
Jeanette Volturno: Right, right.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. No, we, yeah, it just amazing, amazing people to just be super proud of, if anything.
Julie Harris Oliver: How about you, Yolanda?
Yolanda T. Cochran: I am super proud. There's a thing of, like, for me, I don't know if this applies to everybody else, but for me personally, having done this for, you know, a long time and having confidence in [00:49:00] what I was doing or my abilities or my contribution or my value to the work and what was being done. You know, having that confidence in yourself, but not always having that affirmed. And I feel like this was a great opportunity for me to understand what I could do and understand what I know. And what I mean by that is, and it's, this has come clear to me in the recent interviews that I've done for the series, which is: I had tremendous confidence in myself, in Jeanette and in Meko.
And most particularly among that, Meko. Like Jeanette and I, whatever, like I had complete confidence in Meko. And so a lot of the things that came up were like, oh, is this gonna be a problem, how are we gonna do this, and da da da. Are we gonna be able to make it or whatever. And the reason I asked [00:50:00] about being worried is cause I was asked if I was worried, and there was never a time that I was worried.
And often my answer was because I had confidence in my filmmaker. I knew what filmmaker I had, and so I was never worried. And the fact that I trusted me understanding that I knew that I had the right person and us get the result that we got. And it was basically, that was confirmation and me being like, yeah, we got it. We're good.
I'm super proud of that.
Julie Harris Oliver: So the absolute opposite of imposter syndrome.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like I told, yeah, we're good. I know we're gonna do it. You told me in some parts of the process it would be like, oh, what about this? What was, no, you gave us a, you gave us a task. You gave us the benchmarks, we're gonna do it, we're gonna meet it, it's gonna be fine.
And we did.
Jeanette Volturno: I love, I love the fact that for 90% of it, there was no drama on [00:51:00] our side.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Jeanette Volturno: And we actually, from something that was a half baked idea, we leaned into it as much as we could. We hit the ground running. We didn't pay attention to all of the naysayers on the outside who were, you know, oh, is it good enough? Are you gonna make it? Are you gonna get there? Or whatever. And we hit this tiny little bullseye.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Jeanette Volturno: You take something that was a fun watch that I am proud of.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Jeanette Volturno: That I feel is what is more than what we set out to make and is a great calling card for you. Like I, I, I am so proud that, that we were able to get through and I don't think there was anything that I did that I regret or was embarrassed about.
I think I tried to be as real as possible with that and
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Jeanette Volturno: And I actually loved working with both of you. Loved, loved, loved. Same with both of you.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Same. Likewise.
Meko Winbush: Yeah, [00:52:00] that's what I say. I was like, oh, I got, I got like two more big sisters out of this. Yeah. it's been such a joy to like learn from both of you.
And it's funny, like listening to you like both kind of say that, especially you, Yolanda, about just like being in that place where you're like confident with yourself and stuff like that. I had a, one of my really good friends just a week or two ago we talked to a buddy's Avid class. He teaches in college in Colorado. One my friend who just loves trailers, he's been doing it for 15 years. He's really good. This guy's Steve Pinto, but you know, he's talking to the class. One of the things he said is he's like, look, you know, it took me a long time to get to, to build up my skill and this and that and get good at this, and now I just get to enjoy being good at it.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Mm-hmm.
Meko Winbush: And I feel like that's kind of where you're at. And like that's kind of where that benchmark that I also want to hit for myself at some point, where it's like, I mean, granted, I'm a perfectionist and nothing's ever gonna be good enough, but I wanna get to,
Yolanda T. Cochran: Don't talk about the box!
Meko Winbush: I'm feeling triggered right now.
But it's like, yeah, [00:53:00] get to that point too, where it's like, oh, now I can just enjoy being good at, really, really good at this for the next til forever.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Jeanette Volturno: Well, for anyone who works with you in the future, Miss Meko, you are a fantastic team player.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah, I think, I mean, I, they at some point
Meko Winbush: Have to be as the youngest of four.
That was one of the big things. Yeah. Like figure it out. Like I would tell myself to figure it out.
Yolanda T. Cochran: I think somebody asked both of us at one point, it was like, if you're not hire, it was, it was at the end of prep, I think, and we were at Occidental Studios, and they were asking us about Meko and we were like, if people aren't clamoring to hire Meko Winbush to direct stuff, then they're freaking stupid
Jeanette Volturno: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. It was, it was an odd process because they, they would make you question yourself every day. It was, that was the hardest thing.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Right.
Jeanette Volturno: So I I, I would say like as a process, it wasn't a documentary, it [00:54:00] was this exploratory deep dive into your psyche of like questioning everything that you did that day which was an odd, reflective place to be.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Right. Mm-hmm.
Jeanette Volturno: That's what you see in the show. That's how they approached the show, not as a documentary style.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah. Yeah, and I like what you said too about like, I can't remember exactly what you said, but I was thinking, like I've said, like I was constantly monitoring what I was saying and the words coming out of my mouth, but also I was actively making an effort to be my authentic self as well. So that's a weird.
Julie Harris Oliver: That's a lot of mental.
Yolanda T. Cochran: That's a lot. I was exhausted. I was exhausted every day because of the, I was doing mental gymnastics all day long. Every day on top of just doing the job. Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot. God.
Julie Harris Oliver: Yeah. All right. Our two final questions for all of you. What is a favorite memory you have of this production? If it was like a great laugh [00:55:00] or something sweet or something, something enraging you will never forget or let go of.
Jeanette Volturno: I loved when Danny took the camera from Jeremiah and turned it on him in
Yolanda T. Cochran: God. That was great.
Meko Winbush: That was fun.
Jeanette Volturno: That was so.
Meko Winbush: What did he say to him it was, cause the, the thing they always say to you
Yolanda T. Cochran: No. Can you repeat the question in the answer?
Meko Winbush: Andy, our first AD onto
Yolanda T. Cochran: The VP of the doc series.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. He was one of the camera guy and actually he's the one, like Jeremiah Smith is like one of the dopest.
Jeanette Volturno: He's awesome.
Meko Winbush: He's on Avid Elementary right now.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah, he's scripted. He's a cameraman who should be working in DP on his own.
Jeanette Volturno: We're gonna, we're gonna snag him.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. He's so good. And just such a good attitude, just like good people. But yeah, the AD took the camera from him one day.
Yolanda T. Cochran: That was great.
Meko Winbush: Turned it on him and started asking him questions and yeah, giving him the whole, "repeat, you know, put the, question [00:56:00] in the answer."
Jeanette Volturno: Where, where, like, where Jeremiah started wearing the piece of tape that said, "it's weird for me too." Mm-hmm. .
Meko Winbush: That was a, that was a good one.
Yolanda T. Cochran: What was your favorite?
Meko Winbush: That was pretty funny. I really liked shooting the sitcom set. That was a lot of fun.
Jeanette Volturno: That was the best.
Julie Harris Oliver: Everybody has talked about that being the best thing.
Meko Winbush: Yeah, it was really cool cause before we shot, like, the scene from the, the movie, you know, the, the league watches the sitcom all the time, so we had a sitcom family act out and it, it felt like a sitcom
Jeanette Volturno: They were real sitcom actors.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. They were so good. So that was like super fun.
That was really cool. I really liked shooting the bus stop scene. Jessica and Garret, cause they were just hilarious. Yeah. That was a lot of fun. They were just like, so friendly and like, they just had really good chemistry too. And oh, that was a lot of fun. And then, and it was really cool like when Gina came to set, that was kind of cool.
Gina Prince-Bythewood, she's like one of the [00:57:00] mentors for the, through the, through the show and she came to set one night, which was super dope cause she was in the midst of finishing The Woman King and was still making time to like, you know, cheer me on and call me and text me and, and all of these things.
So, and as someone who's like Love & Basketball was like, that movie was my jam. It's still like, yeah. I'm like, oh my God. She's like showing up to my set and like, yeah, it's kind of cool.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay. Were you dying that she was like texting you and coming to
Meko Winbush: Oh no. Yeah, it's so weird that I'm like, yeah, it's so bizarre and like, because we very much like kind of similar personality too and part of it, like she used to be a basketball player and I was a basketball player too, so, you know, her advice, well was kind of just walking onto the, onto the set, like you walk onto the court, you know, all that kind of confidence and swagger and stuff like that.
And so she, yeah, she was really cool. And then obviously like Kumail Najiani was another one of the mentors too.
Jeanette Volturno: All of our advisors were
Yolanda T. Cochran: Great. Like they were really great.
Meko Winbush: Yeah, like all of them, like [00:58:00] between the three of them, they gave me such sound advice and just even like doing the photo shoot. The promotional photo shoot a couple weeks ago with the three of them. Like it was just super interesting. Like at one point they were all naming like their top five movies and another time they were talking about line reading and whether or not they like it.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Meko Winbush: It was just like super interesting hearing each opinion and like.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah.
Meko Winbush: Just because they've all, yeah, I don't know. They all, yeah, the, if the one, I mean obviously there are a lot of really good things that came out of this, but like having the three of them as mentors as well was definitely, definitely awesome. And I got like a lot of really good advice from all three of them, so.
Julie Harris Oliver: Did you have a moment where you were like, oh my God, my dream is coming true. Like, did you have one of those out-of-body?
Meko Winbush: Yeah. No, definitely. Well, I told these guys, like when they called my name, like when Issa said my name, I pretty much blacked out. That was on a Wednesday night, and like, I pretty much was in this like blackout state. From there, like [00:59:00] Thursday, like I woke up to all these texts and then like all of a sudden I woke up again and I was at a bar with a drink in my hand.
I'm like, when did I get here? And then I was somewhere else with another drink and like my friends are there hugging me. And then, and then, and then the next day, Friday we were already like,
Jeanette Volturno: We're like you're late.
Meko Winbush: We were already starting , you're already like hiring like senior director, like interviewing, casting directors. Like literally in, in like, 36 hours.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Immediately. Yeah.
Meko Winbush: It was, yeah. So like, yeah, I almost didn't have time to pinch myself. But yeah, there were definitely moments, yeah. Being on set and then, just moments of surreal where I'm like, oh my God, this is like, I can't believe this is happening. So that was the other thing that made it work.
I wasn't like super, super stressed cause it's like, yeah, I think things happen when they're supposed to happen and, and had this happened like 10 years ago, I might not have been ready. But you know, at this point just having had a lot of life experience and been through a lot of hardship and this and that and you able to deal with certain like stress and this and that, you know, [01:00:00] in a good way, if that's a thing.
Julie Harris Oliver: Like this is your moment and you might,
Meko Winbush: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So definitely like still pinching myself and like.
Jeanette Volturno: You were meant to do it.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. Yeah.
Julie Harris Oliver: It's incredible. It's great. Yeah.
Okay Yolanda, beat that.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Okay. I'm gonna cheat. I have three moments. So Meko knows how weird I am about, I just because of trying to understand how to navigate life in the, in the valleys and the, you know, the, the highs and all of that.
Like, I've always tried to, or at least I've learned to be an observer and kind of more like, I try to, I'm not zen, I'm not Buddhist or anything, but like be zen about like, shitty shit. And so our worst day on set was this particular day shooting the end of the movie. And it was terrible. It was the, it was my low, it was the worst day of the shoot [01:01:00] for me, no question, because saying, because I said I literally wanted to dig a hole and bury myself in it like that, for real.
But we actually made it through the day, like we made the day. And so,
Julie Harris Oliver: And the end works.
Yolanda T. Cochran: And it works. And so I was like, oh my God. Thank God. Thank God it all survived. Survived, yes. So thinking about how bad that was, reminded me of my next runner up favorite memory was the Red Room.
So Meko finished her director's cuts of the movie.
Meko Winbush: Oh no. Are you gonna say this?
Yolanda T. Cochran: And it was. Like, you know, everybody's, I was like, okay, we're, oh, everybody's excited. Like, oh my God, we're finally gonna see the movie. Like, what is it gonna be like, like what's gonna be the reaction?
Jeanette Volturno: We were, just set it up for [01:02:00] everybody.
We were completely shut out.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah. So, for guild rules in the Director's Guild, the director has a private time to cut their movie without interference and anybody seeing anything. So then when they screen their director's cut, it's the first time you're seeing, so it's like a big buildup and we're all there and like it's a, whatever, a group of folks.
And we went to, I think it was William Morris, and it's like, oh my God, we're gonna see the movie. And we, we screened the movie and it, and then it ended and there was dead silence. There was dead silence.
Julie Harris Oliver: In the room?
Yolanda T. Cochran: In the room.
Jeanette Volturno: So I turned around.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Nope, but I, it was just like,
Julie Harris Oliver: cut?
Yolanda T. Cochran: No, we're not gonna say.
Every once in a while she said, submit this to, to make me laugh, but,
Meko Winbush: Oh, this is where it happened.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Let's just suffice to [01:03:00] say that Meko screens, her director's cut. And there was, you could hear a pin drop in a carpeted room, which was,
Julie Harris Oliver: Did you wanna die?
Yolanda T. Cochran: Which was super weird and odd.
Meko Winbush: Just weird.
Yolanda T. Cochran: But me being the crazy person that I am, I take great gleam, and amusement out of this memory. I love it. And it will be my, my favorite memories of this movie forever.
Meko Winbush: Yeah, it was weird. I definitely couldn't wait to get
Julie Harris Oliver: So wait, what happened?
Yolanda T. Cochran: Well, eventually people started talking, but for a long while it was dead silent.
Julie Harris Oliver: I'm gonna say, because they were so moved and stunned. So,
Meko Winbush: Yes, I think so. They were just moved.
Yolanda T. Cochran: And so, and then my most, most favorite memory was, I am a post geek. I love, love, love, love, love post, and was super excited about the post period for this movie and what we were gonna do with the sound work and felt like it was really gonna help the movie, which it did. [01:04:00] So my, my most favorite memory, and I love all the people that we worked with, I love all of you, all of our crew.
Love you bunches and bunches. But I really had so much fun in the sound mix.
Meko Winbush: Oh yeah. I forgot about the sound mix too. Yeah, the sound mix was the eight days we spent at Formosa with the,
Yolanda T. Cochran: That was super great.
Meko Winbush: We renamed it the Roast Room.
Yolanda T. Cochran: I loved it. I had, I mean I, it just filled my heart. Like I was just like so happy just experiencing it because we had talented people doing it and they were lifting the film another level and it was just fun to be, to observe it.
Meko Winbush: No, they were so good at their jobs and they're just so cool to like... Yeah. Caleb and, and, Rocket Car David, Jeff Pitts. Byron.
Jeanette Volturno: A shout out to all of the vendors that helped us.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yes.
Jeanette Volturno: All of the crew that helped us.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah. Headquarters, [01:05:00] Intinuity, Crafty Apes. Yep.
Jeanette Voltunro: These unions that allowed for people to step up into the positions that we gave them.
I mean, really, really, really, really wonderful to support independent film and new voices.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah
Julie Harris Oliver: It's a total lovefest.
Now, I think this brings us to our martini shot, or in our case, the red wine.
And Bri, Josh.
What advice do you have for someone trying to do what you do? But before I ask that, Meko, what is next for you?
Meko Winbush: Dude. Hopefully working with these guys again. Definitely just taking a breather just for a minute, but like, yeah, just trying to figure out the next project. Like I'd love to, I'd love to direct something that I, I write at some point. So yeah, just kind of figuring that next project, just definitely excited to get back.
I have so much fun on set and I love like working, just being part of a team. It's just so much fun.
Julie Harris Oliver: I feel like we're sitting on the launchpad right now.
Yolanda T. Cochran: You are. Yeah, [01:06:00] you are. Yeah, you mark, write it down. You are definitely sitting on it. For sure.
Julie Harris Oliver: Exciting!
Jeanette Volturno: And we're gonna get the band back together.
Meko Winbush: Dude. I, yeah, definitely getting the band together.
Like, there's so many of those people that I'm like, oh, I wanna work with them again.
Yolanda T. Cochran: For sure. Yeah, for sure.
Julie Harris Oliver: Okay. What is your piece of advice for someone who wants to do what you do?
Meko Winbush: I would say be patient, but still work hard. Like it's definitely something that doesn't just, I mean, well some, some people get lucky and it happens very fast.
And other people, it took a few years for me to get here and, and it was not without discouragement and all of these things, but it's all kind of just kept believing in myself and still trying to find other ways to be creative and stuff like that. Yeah. I think it's being patient with yourself, putting some pressure on yourself.
Also putting in the work.
Julie Harris Oliver: It's what they say that it's where luck meets preparation. So you have to do the preparation part.
Meko Winbush: Yeah. 100%.
Julie Harris Oliver: So that when the luck comes, you're ready.
Meko Winbush: Mm-hmm. , no, that's 100%. If I hadn't spent all that time writing and getting good and fast, then it definitely [01:07:00] helped with this and editing and just doing, even doing all the shorts and stuff, it definitely helped.
So then when this came, that's why I wasn't worried. Cause it's like, yeah, I, I'm ready. I can do this. I know what I'm doing. So yeah.
Yolanda T. Cochran: My advice over the last probably 10 years has continued to be understand that what this business is, and a lot of other businesses are, is not a meritocracy truthful. So while what Meko just said is correct, you want to prepare yourself and be skilled and be knowledgeable.
You need to understand that those are not necessarily the things that are gonna get you where you are wanting to go, in this business. And you're not gonna just get yourself there because you're the best at what you do and you know the most. And you have to understand that. And you have to understand the things the other things that you need to do to get yourself where you want to [01:08:00] go. And that's a lot.
Some of that is about making people understand what you're capable of and speaking it, and saying it out loud, and then putting it in front of people's faces. And part of it is about networking and finding the people who can take you where you wanna go, and understanding the most effective ways and means to get in front of them.
It's not about like, you know, knocking their doors down because you're probably not gonna be effective that way either, because you're gonna make a nuisance of yourself. So it's a little bit about becoming, I don't wanna say a player, not a player. I'm definitely not a player. But you definitely have to navigate this business and the earlier you do it, the better and the farther you're gonna get sooner.
Julie Harris Oliver: You can't just sit in your apartment and write a script and then wait for the phone to ring?
Yolanda T. Cochran: No, not do that. I was just thinking like in my mind, when Meko was talking is like, do not wait, do not wait for anything. You have to constantly be going [01:09:00] forward, speaking out, saying, "Hey, here's what I wanna do." Tell people, don't wait for them to recognize that you're amazing because you might wake up and be 40 something and amazing and nobody paid attention to you.
Julie Harris Oliver: You don't wanna die with your potential intact.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Exactly.
Meko Winbush: Can I just add one more thing... also just the way like technology is and about like not sitting home. Like if you wanna make movies, then go make one. Like there was a great movie called Tangerine that was shot on an iPhone 5s and it's great. Like write a great script, get good actors and like.
As long as you have good characters and people are interested in what they do, cause so much of a movie is having interesting characters, like people are gonna see it. Like there's no, you kind of don't have a ton of excuses. Like, I mean, Christopher Nolan shot his first movie for $5,000 on weekends over like a year.
So like, don't just sit in your apartment and wait for, like, go do it then if you wanna, if you wanna do it.
Jeanette Volturno: I love all of that and I would say surround yourself with people who believe in [01:10:00] you and listen to what you're repeating in your own mind and your heart, because you are your biggest champion. And if you are thinking negative thoughts like, oh God, I can't do this, then you're gonna project that out to the world.
So you have to believe in yourself and really have the people around you that believe in you as well. Because it takes a team. It is not a solo thing. It takes a hundred plus people to make a movie.
And you need to surround yourself with people who are like-minded, like-hearted, and are willing to go that extra thing because you need those people to work symbiotically with your vision to get it done.
Yolanda T. Cochran: Yeah. That's good.
Jeanette Volturno: And also you don't need to yell at people either.
Julie Harris Oliver: It always comes down to don't be a dick.
And that's a wrap.
Jeanette Volturno, Meko Winbush, Yolanda Cochran. Thank you very much. We cannot wait to watch the season.
This has been [01:11:00] Catch a Break. Project Greenlight Edition. I'm Julie Harris Oliver. I'd like to thank our guests, Meko Winbush, Yolanda Cochran and Jeanette Volturno. And special thanks to Crewvie.com, a dynamic platform that connects people to productions worldwide.
Please check out our website at Catchabreakpodcast.com and follow us on all the social media. Catch A Break is produced in partnership with CatchLight Studios and The Other 50%. Our theme music Mantra for a Struggling Artist was composed by Andrew Joslyn. Thanks for listening, and be sure to go watch Project Greenlight and then come check us out for the behind the scenes of the behind the scenes.
Next up I'll talk with Jessica Frances Dukes, who plays Ayla in the film, and Seth Yanklewitz, the casting director. In the meantime, I hope this helps you to catch a break.